Until corporate owners and officers are held liable for all the harms they cause, we will remain disadvantaged by the law as it stands.

For example a number of Gunns executives and board members in Tasmania have been taken to court by work safety authorities and have used their corporation’s ‘personhood’ to avoid their responsibilities.

They pleaded not guilty on their own behalf but made the corporation plead guilty and apologised on Gunns behalf to the worker, and then on behalf of Gunns wrote a cheque to pay the fine.

Finally they had the corporation sue the work safety authority for their court costs because they themselves had been found not guilty and therefore not responsible for safety in anyway in the workplace.

TheMarch 2009 official figures show just how successful they have been, when the employers were lumbered with $1.9Billion in 2005-2006 compared with the workers share at $26.03 billion with the rest of society carrying the can back at a cool $29.49 billion.

My god, the death toll of 1790 killed directly and by work related diseases is higher than the road toll and more than all the troops we have overseas.

If we were losing 34 soldiers a week in Afghanistan we would be in deep mourning.
So why is this any different?
On top of that fully incapacitated or seriously wounded, (using the army analogy) of 39,510 or 780 a week would mean a catastrophic military blunder.
So why are we accepting such figures at the hands of our cowardly politicians and there corporate masters?

I’ll tell you why!!

Because no one pays attention, except for those bloody unions John Howard has taught us to despise.
As a result we have let ourselves become victims of the Corporations that Abraham Lincoln was so concerned about. Seems to me, he foretold the current events accurately, and what’s more the whole world ought to have another revolution, write a new Declaration of Independence and rip away the unbounded power of these corporate ‘persons’ have taken upon themselves.

sadly bh most the punters have no idea about personhood,and how murder has been legalised by the corperations creating for themselves the right of a person..[dispite the fact the corperate/person fiction definitivly not being a living-being]

i am at a loss how to explain to people..they too have a created person[their in caps birth registration[full name]..[that under that they too have the same rights these corperate entities have,[up to and including the ability to get away with murder]

it is not till people wake up to the fact this person-hood issue,is allowing unspeakable things to be done under civil law..,or the law of trade and contract[

yet criminal law requires a victim[surely in this case there was a victim,that gives the case its required criminal juristictional standing enough to get a criminal to be held to account

im not suprised gunns is doing this stuff[arnt they linked to enron?]

anyhow the mug punters like their ignorance..[THEY REALLY DONT CARE HOW MANY are MURDED at work,..they couldnt care less knowing about how under person-hood..the persona..,they are held to account for is only a legal vector that govt uses to police the people

[where as policing people is an unconstituted/power..designed purely to revenue raise by creating person/acountability via the persona fiction..[an illegal act[reserved legally only to the corperate fiction,the'corp person]..that somehow has cleverly subverted into faciltating the farcicle oppressions on living beings

your post highlight's the problem,..but the great minds here dont[cant]concieve the whole person hood scam,..created by the oh so clever lawyers..[actually making these vile laws,thus in time will be beaten by the system..that supposedly was created to protect them

talk about ignorants..taking the mark of the beast..[that allows their..'persona'[person]to trade..,buy and sell and be sold out by traitors,..making us all sub-servant to govt act..[talk about the fox ruling the roost]...lol

forgive them lord..they know not what is being done to them

nor it seems even try to comprehend the vile done by the hoods creating the person

but they seem willing to die for the lie
[at 3 times the rate of the road-toll...lol]

BH, if we had any lawyers in the country, the Judges and Magistrates of Australia would stop judging, and let juries do it all. They make Judges and Magistrates out of lawyers, but Judges and Magistrates don’t deliver justice, they deliver law. However they are all schizophrenic and suffer from bipolar disorder, because the Parliament of the Commonwealth made all people accountable under the Criminal Code Act 1995 ( Cth) .

Anyone who aids abets counsels and procures, another person, and that includes a corporation, to offend the Criminal Code Act 1995 ( Cth) is caught since the 20th October 2001, by S 11.2 Complicity and common purpose : is taken to have committed that offence and is punishable accordingly.

That catches all their lawyers, all the directors of a corporation and the Judges and Magistrates who gave them dispensations from obedience to the law. Only a jury trial can grant a dispensation from obedience to Statute Law, and that is a uniquely Protestant Christian concept, not adopted by Roman Catholic regimes. The Pope says he and his priests can forgive sins, but a Protestant Christian believes only Jesus Christ when present in 12 disciples as a jury of your peers is able to remit a sin.

This has been part of English law since 1384 or thereabouts. Get a copy of the Criminal Code Act 1995 ( Cth) or download a copy from Comlaw, or Scaleplus after a Google search, and you will see that I am right. You have every right to be angry, and God loves an angry man. It is through anger that the law is enforced. Protest to Senator Bartlett. He is on the Constitutional committee of the Senate and is from Tassie

I absolutely agree with you.

I know that Australia had/has?? the worst Industrial accident record in the developed world. Not much has changed.

The Government/s have done nothing to change this, and the public is apathetic;-until it happens to someone close to them.

This:

'They pleaded not guilty on their own behalf but made the corporation plead guilty and apologised on Gunns behalf to the worker, and then on behalf of Gunns wrote a cheque to pay the fine.

Finally they had the corporation sue the work safety authority for their court costs because they themselves had been found not guilty and therefore not responsible for safety in anyway in the workplace.'(Quote: bucket head).

..is bloody scandalous!

The greater scandal is of course, that they CAN do this.

I hope you get more posts on this subject....

It's interesting how the collective mind works.
More people are killed by cars (and donkeys) every year than by sharks yet we fear sharks but not cars.

Likewise, industrial accidents rate just a passing mention in the media and typically only when there's some video to go with the report.

Of course there's usually some form of compensation, but for some reason, governments prefer to park an ambulance at the bottom of a cliff than to put a fence on top of it.

The real problem stems from the takeover of the law by lawyers, and the lack of a Federal Court, that constitutes itself as a court. When a Court has a Judge, it is not a court within the meaning of the common law or Constitution. A court is what the Parliament of the Commonwealth is when it convenes, but it is a legislative court, not a court of law. It follows from that that a major disinformation campaign has been carried out by the lawyer members of Parliament to convince you that they can delegate judicial power to a Court.

All readers of OLO should take the time to write to the Prime Minister, who probably monitors this website anyway, because he has contributed to it twice, as far as I know, the first time in December 2004, when he pleaded for the Labor party to be trusted for its Christian roots, and on another occasion. The readers who think that workers should get a fair go, and insurance companies should be most concerned about workplace accidents, should ask KR and his government to repeal S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules. If they do that then it is a jury in a Ch III court, that decides the damages to be paid as compensation to a widow and kids deprived of their working dad. This is the major difference between Australia and the United States of America. In America it is as of right to file a proceeding in a court, here it is up to a registrar to decide who gets to court, and a Judge deciding without a trial, can exclude you, and on many occasions they do.

We are governed at the whim of an insurance industry. KR has an online complaint form, here.
http://www.pm.gov.au/contact/index.cfm Ask him to repeal those two pieces of legislation, and the people of Australia will see a remarkable improvement in workplace health and safety, as a federal court with a jury awards severe damages for abuse of workers rights under the Constitution

Heads of cororations are simply employees just like any other employee. They DO NOT EMPLOY PEOPLE, the corporation does.

These structures are in place as many a company head has been screwed over the years and stripped of their assetts.

The real fools in this case are the work safety authority and their lawyers, they should have known the laws better and now face the consequences.

Just remember, employees can't be held liable for breaching any company laws, appart from theft and, all that can be done in the case of a serious breach is that they can be terminated from their employment. They are not accountable, so why should the bosses be personally accountable.

If these laws are ever changed and directors are held personally liable then you can kiss your job goodby.

You can't have your cake and eat it I'm afraid.

re-the-club[of rome]..how come a bouncer that bashes the brains out of a patron can be held to account,..but the boss sending his worker into danger cant..[and infact as the gunns case proves will get a right toi sue govt for compensation[for the stress of failing to account?]

some reasons bosses get to vote for their tax own free bonus..or set the contracted rate of the..pay tax as you earn..worker serfs?

how is this farce of 67 as a returement age..[wether your a desk jockey getting papor cuts..or a blue collar falling of a scaffold whilst lugging bricks..[or a miner mining asbestos..[or a spray painter getting pluricy..or a truckie driving 18 hours a day[who will all be dying well before pension age,65..[let alone 67]

yet forced to compulsory supper con-tribut-ions for those white collors living long enough to retire, lording it over the serfs who get minumum medical and dental[whilst the boss gets firsat class as a work condition

the worker will get to pay feul excise on top of getting to work[while his master..[better]gets a free car and tax free fuel and a nice share deal..[and a seat on the board]..even legal representation and govt protections tax cuts and subsidies

how hard first removed death duties,then privatised the public owned utilities ,then put the full tax burden on the poor pay as they earn, by fuel taxes,.gst,..smokers tax, hundreds of state taxes[rego, fees and charges..[now krudd with his alcopops[yet not wine]

So corporations have to follow the law but they are taken to court as the corporation and not the individual that did something wrong?

What would happen in work places like Barnardos, Life Without Barriers, Benevolent Society, Red Cross where their actual product is people?

I suspect these NGO’s with their bases of foster parents that DoCS fund are going to become, or have already, become the” intensive farms” for children. No one polices them and no caseworker is held accountable if a child is damaged.

Below is the body of a letter I received two days ago. Does this mean that the only office the public perceive as where to complain on behalf of children in care hand back your complaint to who you complained to? Then they send the people you complained about to your house?

I think I really need to know how to respond to this and understand what I (or anyone could) can do next.

Peter does that Act matter where children are concerned?

From NSW Ombudsman:

Complaint concerning Department of Community Services (DoCS).

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention. Whilst we are making our own inquiries in regard to the manner in which the transition planning was undertaken, I have requested that the department meet with you to explain their actions in regard to your complaint.

In addition, I have asked the department to report back to me with regard to the outcome of the meeting, at which time this matter will be formally closed at our Office.

As such, I will not be taking any further action on your complaint at this stage, unless you are dissatisfied with the local resolution process.

Jewely, without even needing to know the exact nature of the complaint, I'd say they have you over a barrel. Docs are almost a law unto themselves, so you will just have to grit your teeth and work your way through the system. The question you need to ask yourself would appear to be.."Will/can I achieve a meaningful outcome"? If not, which is likely with Docs, why bust a gut and put yourself at risk of retaliation?
Docs are also notorious for THAT!
"Ya gotta know when to fold 'em......"

I don’t want to bore you with the details, but Sharon Burrow, Greg Combet, and the rest of the ACTU lawyers, when they campaigned for Your Rights at Work, and were bitterly complaining about the way that a worker could lose his house with a $100,000 fine as they wanted to levy in Western Australia on workers at the Mandurup Railway, probably because they are trained at a University, have not worked out why the government could not do this.

There are two documents which make this legislation illegal, and they are the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 with the Constitution, and the Holy Bible which is incorporated into the Constitution in Ch III Constitution. Maximilion in Darwin, Romany in China, and all the regular posters, from all over Australia ought to realize that because we have a National Queen, Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second we only have one Sovereign, and thats Her. At this reference from a website I have found, http://www.community-law.info/?page_id=466 is an extract from Halsbury’s Laws of England, and it is clear to all Christians, the 65% of us with a few odds sods and bods, who approve of Kevin Rudd being a Christian, and have made his personal popularity the same as the percentage of Christians who claim Christianity in Australia.

What is clear is that Royal means as representative of Almighty God. God owns everything. Because he loves us, He has allowed the Queen, or King since 1290, to grant us the use of the land in trust, for our descendants. Almighty God provided the rules of engagement, in the New Testament and the Constitution made it law. In 1995, the Parliament of the Commonwealth made it an offence against humanity for Judges and Magistrates to sit without juries and exercise the functions of a slave master over us. I am talking about the Criminal Code Act 1995 ( Cth) . In it failure to apply the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights carries 17 years imprisonment. S 268:12. Tell KR on his website, you want your courts back from the lawyers

jewelry<<Complaint concerning Department of Community Services (DoCS).

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.>>

firstly it would be helpfull to know what the complaint SPECIFICLLY says

<<Whilst we are making our own inquirie/in regard to the manner/in which..the transition planning..was undertaken,>>meaning you will be able to get the answers..[if you ask the right questions..[i would take a freedom of info request form with you to present to the beuro-roc-rat in case he stymies

<<I have requested..that the department[rep]..meet with you..to explain..their..actions in regard to..your complaint.>>he is here narrowing the topic..to your specific complaint..[thus the need to know WHAT YOU COMPLAINED..[specificly]about who

<<In addition,I have asked the department..to report back..to me..with regard to..the outcome..of'the'meeting,>>this allows you further powers to acces further info..[get info in writing..[or a copy of the report's[via further freedom of info request]in a few days

<<at which time..this matter will be formally closed..at our Office.>>means he is out of it..after that..[you then have the other avenues of appeal..[to atourney general[courts,or gov general]and ombudsman

<<As such,I will not be taking any further action..on your complaint at this stage>>,..AT this stage..IE ..., unless you are dissatisfied with the..'local'..resolution process.

I WOULD RECORD THE RESOLUTION PROCESS[on one of them pen-type[or watch type recorder,..there is no need to inform them..[unless they inform you,..and they will be recording it]..ask for a written transcript,..we can break down at the wff forum[or here]

i would put to them the issues i raised previously..[asking them if true..[or how you could veryify it faulse,and how they are so sure one way or the other

[you been given one shot to defend the vile systematic abuse done to children,..remember an innocent heart can do ANYTHING]..

there is nothing as powerfull as a woman defending the defensless[not yelling..,not screaming..just asking please explain

the resolution process IS NOT OVER..till your last question gets its reply..[make point by point notes,..ask for a further meeting,..be firm..the kids need you..study up on this..[do the research]..this is[or may be]the very reason you were born...please explain

"Will/can I achieve a meaningful outcome"?

I want to Maximillon. My complaint UOG:

My complaint is a single situation at the beginning of February when I saw a two-and-a-half-year-old girls little soul crushed, her world ripped apart in a heartbeat. She was taken screaming and terrified, desperately trying to cling to me and all she had ever known (she was with me from 10 months old) to be placed with strangers.

This is the “transition” referred to in the letter. Her whole life with me (2 hours a month access with biological parents, no pre-school, bonded to another small child in my care of the same age). After meeting the new male caregiver once, she was gone because a non government organisation arranged it.

I can’t even fathom what this would have done to her. I can barely understand what it is has done to me. How it affected her little pretend twin here was devastating. No I have not seen her again.

I foster children through DoCS, she was placed through DoCS. What I was hoping to achieve was finding that someone/something is held accountable for the care of children that the courts have taken.

What I believe I have found is countless cases of abuse while in care, DoCS and NGO’s. Ignored, discarded children and well funded organisations. I have found that older children have no rights in this system except the right to ask or be heard, no action required.

I believe I have discovered why the Ombudsman’s offices exists and that being to delay complaints, muddy the waters, before carrying on to do nothing because they have no power to do anything beyond make suggestions.

What I can’t do, being me, is walk away now I understand these things, but I have no idea how to move forward. I am already being punished I believe (better keep inserting those two words). I suspect a slow withdrawal of children from my house with no intention of sending more has been in progress since the complaint was lodged. This to my mind leaves me little to lose.

ok, see that they GAVE YOU A POWER of attourney over the child's well being..[the child is YOUR ward,this trusteeship was greated over the child..when you signed up to care for its well being[unless you signed a release..it must hold a weight of law]

you as the childs careg-giver nhave the rights duties and obligations that are due you[and the state contracted you into, in your case..you made the honourable standing before god as well as the state..

[god allways has the higher..'standing'...you need to know that law is all about standing..[in honour]..that god has joined..even if only by seeming act of chance[ie being ;'selected' to care give to the child's well being ,is a higher duty that no state may subvert,no proces,no act or law may subdue

see that you must retain the duty..[power of attourney]..on behalf of the inherant rights held by this child made ward of the state, wether it be by acts of man or acts of god

your duty of care is to the higher power[god]..you have become aware of possable real and present systemised dangers and must act

[you have been given the path,..and accorded a hearing [be heard]
your child has been exposed to real and present danger[i say your child..but all children belong to god] even real parents are only ENTRUSTED to care for their legal charges

the state accorded you the rights equal[maybe even abouve that of the mother]i suggest you find out and define them clearly[if only in your own mind]ask for proofs, ask questions demand answer[if god be by your side [who can STAND against you]..when in doudt remind them your standing stands only under god

they will try to trick you by asking you if you UNDER-stand..[thats a trick question,..they are asking do you stand under their right to do as the do/or have done..[law is tricky]

[NEVER SAY YOU under-STAND]..your standing is equal to the standing of the child's standing..[directly under god]..in law the question ASKER has the higher standing..[dare to question]

[the respondant has lower standing]

..ask if THEY under-stand...lol

Hi Jewely, Now you know what a mongrel communism is. We have a mixture of Nazi Germany and Communist Russia, here in Australia sponsored by a mixture of gangsters, and the lawyers who represent them in court, and have to have a product to sell. These gangsters with enotmous criminal funds, traffic in humans. It started in 1970 when Abe Saffron was able to bribe the Premier to abolish the Supreme Court in New South Wales and replace it with a Lawyers Court.

Paul Keating’s government took steps to reinstate Protestant Christian government in 1995, and it became law in 2001, but the gangsters in and out of Parliament have not allowed this law to be enforced, except by their lawyers, so we are still under communism.

The section 268:12 Criminal Code Act 1995 ( Cth) reads as follows: Crime against humanity: enslavement or other severe deprivation of physical liberty. (1) a person ( the perpetrator) commits an offense if: (a) the Perpetrator imprisons one or more persons or otherwise severely deprives one or more persons of physical liberty, and
(b) the perpetrators conduct violated article 9. 14 or 15 of the Covenant and
(c.) The perpetrators conducted as part of a widespread and systematic attack directed against a civilian population. Penalty 17 years imprisonment.
The perpetrators you are complaining of are the State of New South Wales and its lawyers who since 1970, have conducted a systematic attack on parts of the civilian population of New South Wales with a view to making them slaves of the State.

That includes the little girl removed from your care for commercial gain. Prior to 1970 baby farming as it was called prior to the repeal of the Acts preventing it, was effectively prevented by the right of every person to go to a court, on behalf of any other, even a little girl, and have a jury decide what was in her best interest.

Under the communist system introduced by the Liberal party, in 1970 a Judge decides and ordinary people have no say at all. Make sure Kevin knows

We have tomes and tomes of corporate law… thousands of lawyers making a good living out of defending it, challenging it and rewriting it.

Corporations are divided into shares which are owned by share holders, some holders being other corporations but they all end up being owned by someone, a real person, somewhere.

“Until corporate owners and officers are held liable for all the harms they cause, we will remain disadvantaged by the law as it stands.”

I am not quite sure what bucket head is complaining about but I am sure his grievances are either defendable or deniable in an Australian court and if he don’t like it, then obviously, he might think to consider his agenda and how reasonable it really is.

As for employer liability for work related illness and injuries… the employee is not excused a share of liability for his own negligence, incompetence and stupidity. Pretending the method of corporate ownership which works successfully in the western democracies is at fault is both naïve and pointless unless he is prepared to come up with an alternative which has not been proven as a complete failure in the past, such as government ownership and the other wretched attributes of socialism and worse.

To which, when I recall the cancers which have plagued the maintenance staff of F111 fighter fuel tanks, government employees are not guaranteed perfection either.

The nature of joint stock companies was invented by the Dutch around 300 years ago and adopted around the world because it enables greater trade and commerce to take place. Anyone who pretends they can instantly improve the present nature of corporate ownership and accountibility is kidding themselves.

Anyone who thinks unions are out to represent anyone but power crazed union officials is delusional.

Peter, what would I be saying to Kevin? Do PM’s listen, or listen to housewives from the Central Coast?

This is state law you are explaining, does federal law come in to it? Does Federal Law and State Law clash or are they always in tune with each other? Wouldn’t anything to do with children be Federal since they can cross or be taken across state lines?

When this little girl was taken, before, during, and after I wrote to everyone (not Kevin though). The Premiers office said they would approach Linda Burney who got her Dir-Gen to write to me thanking me, in part, for supporting this transition to which I replied “I didn’t”, are they all nuts? The Children’s Guardian (who I stupidly thought was like the children’s guardian for NSW but turns out they just accredit the NGO’s) wrote and told me to take it to the Ombudsman’s office.

But it isn’t just this wee girl or the mess I got myself in trying to protect her (failed in the end). Can I help any of the foster children?

Especially now the government is backing the Justice Woods that NGO’s take over from DoCS and enlarge their caregiver bases. This will cost the government a fortune, NGO’s cost a lot more per child; I thought this might have stopped it.

But I suspect somewhere and somehow the courts benefit because I can’t see where the government does.

UOG, I take this advice, get things in writing and refuse to understand, luckily the latter comes naturally. And I am not to assume they have a higher standing than me or the child during this meeting. Yes?

Col, does corporate law cover organisations like “Charities”? “Life Without Barriers” for example?

Jewely, Lionel Murphy explained it better than I can in 1984. Federal Law overrules State Law, in this case in 1984. There is an hierarchy, that unfortunately State officials have been ignoring. What I quoted about abuse of civil rights is federal law, and overrules State law. That is why Kevin needs to know how you have been treated very badly. This case is called Metwally.

Our legal system is based on the principle that there cannot be inconsistent laws. This principle operates at federal and State levels and whatever the source of law (constitutional, legislative, delegated legislative or decisional (common) law). If these laws would produce an inconsistency, then one prevails; the other or others are not law, and are often described as invalid or inoperative. The supremacy between what would otherwise be inconsistent laws is resolved in a number of ways. For example, where two laws emanate from one legislature, the later prevails. Where they emanate from different legislatures, constitutional law provides that one is superior, and its law will prevail. In Australian constitutional law, there are two general supremacy clauses, one in the covering clauses of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act (s.5) and the other in the Constitution proper (s.109). Another limited clause is s.105A (agreements with respect to State debts). Section 106 subjects State Constitutions to the ( Federal) Constitution; s.108 similarly subjects State laws to it.

I would be asking Kevin why he is allowing lawyers to control and own the Federal Court so that you cannot get a remedy not only for this little girl but all the others. To give all the children a go, he has only to repeal S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and Order 46 rule 7A Federal Court Rules and get Chris Bowen the competition Minister to have the Federal Court compete in enforcing civil rights with State authorities, and all would be fixed quickly

Peter
With regard to Col's point about the structure of corporations protect the directors (ignoring the conservative political mantra) . This is as I understand it only partially true.
It seems to me the the culprit(s) were those who ordered the the actions or refused/failed to make the appropriate safety practices.
In which case wouldn't it be a case of suing the originator and those who added to the problem under negligence as well as the company.

Slightly different situation. A boss I had told me to get a copy of a client's bankcard number and charge the client without his knowledge albeit for debts the client had incurred. Somewhere in the back of my mind I read that I could be prosecuted if I did (I could not claim immunity under what is called the Nuremberg defense) Isn't the Gunns case similar principle. If so then the fault was that the Gov.dept weren't able or didn't prove cause and effect that involved the directors i.e. direct line of responsibility.
Thanks

I’m going to Peter… write to Rudd, I am going to send him a huge file. I spent two years writing reports on this wee girl and documenting her little life. I printed out every e-mail even the ones at the end of her stay from caseworkers who were horrified at each other and themselves and the whole department. I have hundreds of photos. I have little notes from her mum and dad telling us how much they loved her that they snuck back in the bag from visits. He is going to get the lot.

I am also going to shamelessly steal all your words and send him the whole thread printed out. I am going to suggest he can’t say sorry to the stolen ones (sorry Huff) anyway, not until they stop doing it. Not only stealing them but then sending them on with huge dowry’s to NGO’s.

Yes you are right, of course I will be back to ask everyone exactly what I need to put in my letter at the end of the file.

I realise nothing has been done for the wee girl and I can’t go back, but it might help Kevin if he first looks at and understands who the little girl was before he gets to the end and finds out what was done to her. And done to our whole family really and the little ones who she had shared her life with while in our household.

OUG, I looked up the DoCS site and looked under complaints, DoCS are not allowed to talk to me about the complaint until the Ombudsman closes the case, and the Ombudsman office is saying they won’t close the case until DoCS has talked to me about it. Right now I need God.

contacting kevin is a move that must be carefully planned out,..i suggest setting out a brief..[no more than 3 pages]..that the brief should explain the problem..[as well as suggest what you feel is its cure]

understand that any leader has a flapper[usually a secretary of his secetary,that vets the mail,..then passes on the important issues, through eventually maybe to kevin

[more usually the file will be redirected by kevin secretary to the relivant dept..[who will summerise their appraisal and advice and pen a possable response]..handing kevin the problem[and the cure]at the same time

in short thats a lot of effort for perhaps little fruit[i understand kevin has the open parliment meetings arround australia,..at these its possable to actually meet briefly with keven and the relivant minester,..yet even there it will be handed off to the secetaries etc

at any-rate it is unwise to send the whole details in print[a 3 page letter..[preferably NEATLY hand written]..accompanied with a typed transcript..[and a cd rom containing the extra info..[in full]..is likely to get the best result,

sent to your local member,..the relitive dept head's..as well as kevin atourney general and ombudsman[perhaps even hrh liz]...the origonal letter addressing them all..[but none the origonal..[i would burn that with a prayer to god for his help]..wouldnt put his name on the letter however...

If you wish to make all individuals accountable, then you must make both employers, employees and the public at large accountable.

Say for instance an emplyee leaves something laying on the floor, knowing full well that it posses a risk to others, then someone else trips and falls and ends up in a wheel chair for the rest of their lives. Is that employee liable for damages?

Say a company director does a similar thing with the same outcome. Are they liable?

Say a shopper spills a drink in the center then watches someone else trip and fall, same outcome. Are they liable?

One of the reasons why corporations exist is to limit personal liabillity. It's a good thing, otherwise there would be very few people willing to take the risk of employing others or opening their doors for others to enjoy.

So many questions need answering. In all the cases cited the answer is yes. There used to be accountability and as a counter to that the insurance industry was built up. In 1936 a Queensland lawyer who became a Lord in the House of Lords, expanded the principle of the responsibility of everyone to his neighbour, in the famous Donohue v Stephenson case about a snail in a softdrink bottle.

What they call the corporate veil, the supposed immunity of the employees of a corporation was lifted by the Trade Practices Act 1974 as amended in 1995, and the Paul Keating’s government addressed all of the concerns you all have. He had not gotten around to reforming the government, and breaking the power of the States, but he was very close to it, and would have if elected again.

He passed all the legislation to make Judges and Magistrates accountable, but Howard refused to let this legislation be used. Howard stacked the High Court and encouraged the States to greater independence, and lack of accountability. He had an agenda and that was to take the carbon credits sequestred in farming land, and use it to balance Australian carbon debts. He could not do it directly, but the States which have all abolished their legal systems, did, and have. This was to benefit the coal industry, which generates most of our national wealth. This is the corporate State. The one thing they fear is the courts.

KR has not fixed that problem, but he has made some encouraging indications that he might. He has amended the Trade Practices Act 1974 to comply with Ch III Constitution by changing the capital letters on the word Court used in it, to the small letters used in the Constitution. All he really has to do now is accept that s 79 Constitution means that a court exercising federal jurisdiction, must have judges in them, not a Judge. Plural judges means that the ordinary people like you and me get to sit on a jury, with real power as in America, and here before 1970

It may be that the title of this thread, is a subliminal wish that Australia be like a republic. We cannot have just any republic though, because there is only one that has stood the test of time, and maybe two. The Republic of Ireland, which is really intimate with the Roman Catholic Church, has written the Trinity into its Constitution. So has the United States.

Instead of being the republic we got in 1900, by illegal legislation, enacted by the States, we have become nine Democratic Socialist Republics, and it is only a lack of will by Canberra, that is seeing this sorry state of affairs continue. We should have a Federal Supreme Court because that is what S 71 Constitution says, but in 1979, Fraser abolished it, and we have a High Court instead The only thing atheists fear is a court. It is supposed to have original jurisdiction, and be better than the American, so Menzies locked it up, like a monastery, in 1952. Atheists and secularists are delighted to see little Satan’s (demons) sitting as Judges and Magistrates in Australia. Agnostics do not know what they are missing, and the sleepy Christians have not yet woken up.

The central theme of good government is the Trinity. Muslims don’t have it, Buddhists don’t have it, the Chinese don’t have it, but Christians do. The English wrote the Trinity into their Constitution in 1215, and the law in 1297. The United States include it in theirs because the Trinity was what Jesus Christ taught; Father, Almighty God, Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. How did the English incorporate that into Government; by the Magna Carta and universal jury trial for Christians. That is what we had in our 1900 federal government. A Justice represents Almighty God, a jury Jesus Christ, and their verdict the Holy Spirit; Incorruptible, universal and just.

What we have now is not Justice but just us. Just us lawyers, owning slaves from cradle to grave, just as they did in Hitler’s Germany, Stalin’s Russia, and Mao’s China. Judges and Magistrates as demonic slavemasters.

currently.[4..th/hour]..alex is talking about how,child protective services franchise..is about getting bonus[from govt]..you effectivly are being used to create a clean title to the child they stole

[think of it like washing/money through a legitimate/buisness]they are with you till the state has a clean title..[right to the child]then they are on-sold to those needing kids..[and wanting to pay for them]..anyhow listen to info-wars rebroadcast of it again in a few more hours http://www.infowars.com/

Every judge and lawyer knows this....they just want to know..if your prepared to back up your actions with faith...people are confused..as to why in the world the judge found the defendant guilty when there was no evidence for the plaintiff in the case.

she/he found the defendant guilty because we allowed and agreed by saying mute..[saying nothing]...silence signifies agreement

everybody in prison is there because they volunteered.....of their own free-will to be judged,..responded to the name called creating a joinder of the body to the name,..accepted being called the defendant or the accused,accepted the court calling them mr..[a person]ie a corperate/fiction..indicating social lower standing before the court..'higher'..standing..[and rebutted nothing]..lol

If you volunteered,you surrendered your standing,you contracted into service..[mr is a military rank]....that mean's you created a verble contract..Then....have become subject.[as subject,..you become subject to contract law]..[subject to the act]..subject to loosing your kids

WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH LAW?

1.law of equal's[laws of victims,.and..laws that create an obligation[under contract law you are the obligated one..[it is put on you to supply the remedy[the repaynment of an advantage]..had you not accepted the advantage,..you could have no obligation..[thus no con-tract

know that all men are created equal

2.All are equal under the Law(but god speaking to his people frightend them..[so they sought an intermediator]..a..judge

read how it went down

basis of law is gods exodus..20;1-17 this frightend the people..[ex 20;18-20..so men made mosus judge/jury[jewry]..built an alter and created man..[mosaic law](Exodus 21-23]

mosus[a man in a dress]built the court..[leviticuss..24;1-8 and at..'9'..created the satutes[10-23]advising the specific clauses..25;18-55...at 26 god advises the land be remain unbound,..mentioning the binding clauses..[that were in time broken]and mentioning their remedy,..in 27 are laid out the penalties[equity]

there have been further public readings verifying the law at vairious times and places..Lev...24:17-21;..Deut...1:17,19:21;..Matt.,22:36-40;..Luke10:17;..Col.3:25.

the laws are further clarified by Legal-maxims,wrote by man:"No one is above the/law.";"Commerce,by the law of nations,ought to be common and not to be converted into a monopoly and the private gain of a few.").

3.In Commerce truth is sovereign..(Exodus 20:16;..Ps.117:2;..Matt.6:33,..John 8:32;..II Cor.13:8.
Legal maxim:.."To lie is to go against the mind."

4.Truth is expressed by means of an affidavit(Lev.5:4-5;..Lev.6:3-5;..Lev 19:11-13;..Num.30:2;..Matt.5:33;..James 5:12).

5.An unrebutted affidavit stands as the truth in Commerce(1 Pet. 1:25;..Heb.6:13-15...Legal maxim:"He who does not deny,..admits.").

6.An unrebutted affidavit..[signed contract becomes the judgment in Commerce(Heb. 6:16-17...Any proceeding in a court,tribunal or arbitration forum consists of a contest,or"duel,"of commercial affidavits wherein the points ..remaining unrebutted in the end..stand as the truth and the matters to which the judgment of the law is applied.).

7.A matter must be expressed to be resolved(Heb...4:16;..Phil.4:6;..Eph.6:19-21.
Legal maxim:"He who fails to assert his rights has none.").

8.He who leaves the field of battle first loses by default(Book of Job;..Matt.10:22...Legal maxim:"He who does not repel a wrong when he can,occasions it.").

9.Sacrifice is the measure of credibility..(One who is not damaged,put at risk,..or willing to swear an oath that he consents to claim against his commercial liability in the event that any of his statements or actions is groundless or unlawful,..has no basis to assert claims or charges and forfeits all credibility and right to claim authority.)..(Acts 7,life/death of Stephen,

maxim:"He who bears the burden ought also to derive the benefit.").

10.A lien or claim can be satisfied only through rebuttal by Counter-affidavit point-for-point,resolution by/jury,or payment(Gen. 2-3; Matt.4;..Revelation...Legal/maxim:"If the plaintiff does not prove his case,the defendant is absolved.").

1.A workman is worthy of his hire(Exodus20:15;..Lev.19:13;..Matt.10:10;..Luke10:7;II

Then and only then will they leave you alone.Tim.2:6.
Legal maxim:"It is against equity for freemen
not to have the free disposal of their own property.").

consider where you or your friends have been lead....On the subject of courts and the prospect that:“He who does not deny….admits”

“They are trying to use contract law....”

Now let’s get back to this in a court/scenario….

“if the defendant does not rebut..the unproved/assumptions and presumptions.”..Then,..according to the laws of procedure...in an equity court..their/failure to rebut them….must mean that THEY MUST BE..assumed..to be TRUE!!

BECAUSE YOU/they/we..DIDN'T REBUT THEM!!..because/under the terms of contract law,..you,..have[silently]accepted the proposition,..and not rebutted a lie...You didn't/rebut....which is acceptance...so..they are presumed true

when you have offer..and..acceptance...that's a contract..[thats how they take kids from their parents]..lol..sign here...lol,..,BUT..that supersedes any provisions required by formal law and procedure....Because..the parties are..in agreement!!

they..agree..to waive remedies..and provisions of law..anytime..,yet no one tells em


people are confused..as to why the judge found'the defendant'guilty..when there was no evidence..from the plaintiff..[in the hearing..

JUDGE found the defendant guilty..because he/she allowed and agreed..that he should be found guilty!!.....you/they volunteered into CON-tract!...THEN SIGNED IT!..;lol..creating a CONTRACT/advidavit..[that is then held as proof]..lol

everybody in prison/is there because they volunteered.....of their own free will to be judged..you volunteered....you created a contract/advidavit.

there was no evidence..presented..to rebut the presumptions....If the defense didn't rebut the presumptions.....did the plaintiff have a duty..to bring evidence into the case?..OF COURSE NOT!!..Because,they only have to bring evidence..if,..the defendant rebuts the presumptions...and..they/defendants lost their standing..[lawyer's are so clever...lol]

Okay?..here is what's going through the judges mind....he's going…“okay,..there were charges/of wrong-doing...there was no evidence by the state,..but the defendant’s didn’t rebut any of the charges/...because they didn't..rebut the charges....I,as the judge must weigh..are the charges true..[as far as this case is concerned]...or are the charges wrong?...as far as this case is concerned.”

It has to do with/what’s..the intent of the parties here...if there's no evidence...we can't rule on evidence...so it's not a law case...thus/It's a case in equity....we want to know what the intent of the parties are....because the rebuttal never gets to the real facts....

There's no facts before the court..thus..there's no evidence before the court...who/just want to know how everybody feels about it.....do they want to be found guilty or not?..And if they want to be found guilty...then we will go ahead and because we have their..[SILENT}agreement..SO..we'll find them guilty!

The judge sit's back and says,“well look...the charges,..even though their not proved….must be true.”...guilty

This is important isn’t it Peter; This having or not having a Jury sitting in court thing. I have missed Jury duty a few times by leaving a country, moving to a different island etc. But I can’t imagine that I will be sitting with my peers.

I mean seriously, if you got in trouble you wouldn’t want me sitting in a jury trying to wrap my head around different points of law to judge you on? I wouldn’t mind anyone here sitting on a jury judging me but I wouldn’t want the dude that lives on the corner of my street doing it. (Apologies if you are online here you mental case, fix your damn gate).

I think, I did consider this for awhile, there should be professional jurors… like 12real judges. People hired to sit that know a bit about crime, the law, how witnesses can see things distorted during a crime. Corporate law should have a 12 person team that understands that law. Jury Teams, sensible people that have good listening skills and can’t be swayed by ploys used.

I don’t understand carbon shares, isn’t this like the whole “money comes from debt” thing? I own 2 shares in that shrub so I’m all good, might go for a fly over in my private jet and take some photos of it.

And shouldn’t company’s be “carbon positive” not neutral – what is the point in that?

Can I ask why there is state law and federal law? Is this better than one law for the whole country, especially one with a relatively small population like Australia?

I’m still sending it all to Kevin. Unless UOG gets all flirty again, I’ll edit that out.

UOG: “The judge sit's back and says,“well look...the charges,..even though their not proved….must be true.”...guilty”
That was scary. So if you are a defendant always bring something and never be silent?

I gave a judge in NZ the giggles once, he fully giggled right there in court. My ex partners lawyer suggested since I was fully in charge of my children’s lives of course they said they wanted to stay with their mother. I asked the lawyer why they would bloody not eat their vegetable if this was the case.

Then the lawyer put forward the fact that because I foster babies and own pets my children’s lives were surrounded by sh!t (hey the lawyer said that word) so why would I care if the fathers house was unhygienic. Judge had a mental, he must have been having quite an emotional day

To be fair, I think my Ex lost not because he sat there saying “my children are important, I have taken them out three weekends in 8 years even though Julie kept trying to make me see them” but because his lawyer was so unlikeable.

The second judge (ex had too much money) was great, he said yes you can move to Australia but not until he had interviewed the kids (14 & 15) himself for about an hour. He told my ex in court that I (just me) had two extremely intelligent and lovely children and to say goodbye to them but to write and visit often.

When a judge says something it just stays with you forever.

Third Judge said kids couldn’t have anything from their fathers Will because I had left NZ in 1996 and never let the kids have anything to do with him. Wish he’d talked to the first two judges. I think I lost 40,000.00 last year because my lawyer wrote 1997 instead of 2006 somewhere. I am told no grounds for appeal. I am okay with it, it was the fight that had to fought. Defending kids just has to be done whether you win or lose

OUG: “currently.[4..th/hour]..alex is talking about how,child protective services franchise..is about getting bonus[from govt]..you effectivly are being used to create a clean title to the child they stole”

Do you believe this is happening? Should be stopped? Sacrifice for middle class and up? Society is its ethics and its faith or just how comfortable those with ethics and faith are? Content+Ignorant = a Manageable Society?

Would it be better to not stand under God? It doesn’t seem to be the same one for the state wards.

OUG:“ [think of it like washing/money through a legitimate/buisness]they are with you till the state has a clean title..[right to the child]then they are on-sold to those needing kids..[and wanting to pay for them]..anyhow listen to info-wars rebroadcast of it again in a few more hours http://www.infowars.com/”

Couldn’t find it, got to the site and then completely lost. Help? Is American CPS yes? Australia does many things the same, the Federal and State thing… follows America?

But it will be the govt. paying the NGO’s. Oh it still goes back in to the economy? GST and stuff?

Peter… How does a Republic function differently from what we are now?

jewel try
http://www.infowars.com/stream.pls
tomorrow here
http://www.infowars.com/audio/200905/200905.html

The Constitution is a Trust Indenture
extracted from http://www.worldfreemansociety.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=1719

The UNITED STATES,australia/new-zealand,canada[even..UK/EU are..legally..corporation,s..enslaving their populations by contacting us UNDER Codes(such as the U.S. Code),..corperate Rules,..Regulations, acts etc.[that were designed to regulate govt and trade..[but have evolved into the means to tax people and regulate away our freedoms]

The UNITED KINGDOM(Corp.)was lawfully created by the United Kingdom law assosiation,for carrying out its commercial activities,and the UNITED STATES(Corp.)was lawfully created by the United States of America[uk/lawyer franchise]for its commercial activities.etc

It is voluntary..for us to operate..(in commerce)..with these corporations,..but if we are assuming the role of a..'Citizen'..(a created legal-fiction persona[person]/fiction,standing under the society's corperation juristiction),..that UNDER that role..(by us playing UNDER it)..we are constrained to follow the Statutory Acts and Bills...that apply to the entity and role,..and thus oblige us to do contractual/commerce with the corporations created there-under...and anything we sign creates that contracted juristiction

The Constitution is a'Trust'-document..created for the People...by the UK/lawyer's

The Trustors were the People,..the Trust is the incorperated country..the Beneficiary is the Posterity/future...The Trustees are..all those who work for the state..by assuming a role/rank/title[power]..under it's authorities,..such as..PM,'President',minester,'Citizen',judge,public-servant..etc.

The Trust stands-under..no other law..though it does reference..the Law of other Nations,and thus under/stands to treaty-law.

Two good articles on the United-States position...
Political Union or Political Chaos?..by Ed Wahler,2006.
http://www.usofavus.com/political-union-or-chaos.htm
On State-Citizenship by T. Collins, 1994.
http://www.angelfire.com/az/sthurston/On_State_Citizenship.html

And extra reading and discussion for clarification...
Contracts,Trusts and the Corporation Sole
http://teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24
Citizen vs. citizen..The defined entity as a proper noun vs. the common word.
http://teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=689

Corporate U.S.
http://teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=695
Sovereign,/Person,/and Relationship to SSA (Corp. U.S.)
http://teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=734
Corporatism Immunity
http://teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=726

Is the U.S. a corporation?
http://www.reddit.com/r/CommonLaw/comments/79ra9/is_the_us_a_corporation/
Rulings on the sovereignty of the People...
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/corporate_u_s/news.php?q=1239325538

the'Citizen'/slave/status..is a creation of the constituted/States and thus a legal-fiction under their jurisdictions..via..(laws/codes/rules/regulations/orders etc.)..as issued by the courts/govts of the state

"the'Citizen'/slave/status..is a creation of the constituted/States and thus a legal-fiction under their jurisdictions..via..(laws/codes/rules/regulations/orders etc.)..as issued by the courts/govts of the state"

OUG HELP. Damn your links.

“Psychologists call this cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is a psychological phenomenon first identified by Leon Festinger. It occurs when there is a discrepancy between what a person believes, knows and values, and persuasive information that calls these beliefs into question. The discrepancy causes psychological discomfort, and the mind adjusts to reduce the discrepancy. In ethics, cognitive dissonance is important in its ability to alter values, such as when an admired celebrity embraces behavior that his or her admirers deplore.”

“The Court will not pass upon the constitutionality of a statute at the instance of one who has availed himself of its benefits”.

This is America, has 20 times the populations of Oz? They don’t have enough smart ones to complain?

My thoughts; foster children. Government pay to have kids taken, they fund Ngo’s through DoCS. All money flows back because NGO’s, their caregivers, they spend it.

The USA (United States of Australia) is the same as the USA (United States of America).

“Well, when you decided that you needed a Social Security number, you also agreed to become a U.S. citizen and accept what the legal experts call compelled benefits. Herein lies the "real beauty" of the system developed to make you into something you never though possible: a person living in voluntary servitude. Okay, that cognitive dissonance thing just kicked in again.”

I carry on, I am not enjoying knowing these things.

In this fight for little Aussies, I am not a Citizen. I can’t even work out the centerlink site about what I need to do to become one. I applied, they accepted my application, I paid money, went to the office when they wrote me an invite a year ago then they told me I didn’t have “residency”. What is residency? I bought one, a house. I live here. I raise small Australians.

I forgot about it. Now I think I need it. Was a development today with DoCS.. 350 words.

Jewely. UOG is one of a group of people who have perceived a reality, but do not understand why it has come about. The links he describes are in fact a reaction to the undermining in the USA of its Constitution. The USA is still basically sound as any Grisham novel will attest if read and understood, but in Australia they are fiction, because we have moved towards the communist governmental model. I can understand your confusion.

There is a legal rule called KISS. Keep it simple stupid, the reason for it being that the average IQ is 100, range 95-105, and that is the IQ of an average juryman. The Australians in New South Wales before 1970, had laws allowing a special jury, consisting of successful businessmen and farmers, for larger property cases, and these were of a higher than average IQ. The IQ of an average lawyer, and therefore a Judge is said to be 115, which is all you really need to get a law degree these days.

It is probably not necessary for Kevin to see all the file. He should get an idea, of what is going on from the disciplined posts of 350 words, you have been trained by the OLO computer to write. There used to be a maxim of law, There is no wrong without a remedy. This is now there is no remedy for any wrong. What you need to tell KR is that this is so, and the reason why this is so, is that the Federal Court of Australia is dysfunctional because of two illegal pieces of legislation, one made in Parliament and the other outside Parliament.

The in Parliament one is S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 which allows a Judge to sit without a jury, and makes him a virtual Old Testament King. The second is the Rule of Court made by these de-facto Kings, in conclave, ( just like a college of Cardinals) Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules, which makes it an exclusive club, so they don’t work too hard.

It has become apparent that a certain woman was a New Zealander, and wants to become a citizen of Australia. Under the Constitution Kiwi’s have a special place, because they may not vote, but have free and unfettered access to Australia, because NZ was included in the Colonies who could become a State of Australia in the Commonwealth. Just try again, because unless you are a crim, the granting of citizenship is automatic.

You see S 8 of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900 says: Application of the Colonial Boundaries Act: after the passing of this Act, the Colonial Boundaries Act 1895, shall not apply to any colony which becomes a State of the Commonwealth; but the Commonwealth shall be taken to be a self-governing colony for the purpose of that Act. New Zealand and Australia have a unique status, legally joined at the hip. Hence ANZAC. Australian and New Zealand Army Corp.

You should be asserting you are a subject of the Queen. Citizens are slaves to a State, free men are subjects of Almighty God subject to allegiance to his sworn representative Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second. Because you are a subject, you have or had great rights, but the lawyers have gradually been reducing you to slavery. As a slave, unless you buy a licence to drive from the slave master, you cannot drive, under threat of arrest. S 92 Constitution should exempt you, but slavery is a business, and the keepers are Police.

This is causing schizophrenia in Magistrates. They know they are bound by S 5 Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act 1900, and S 92 Constitution makes all travel in Australia free, and they know s 109 Constitution obliges them to apply an exemption to any interstate journey, and they know from law school, that the Queen is a Commonwealth authority who owns all freehold land, sold by the States since 1900, that travel in Australia between private lands should be totally free of licence fees. So to avoid going mad, they are simply convicting people driving without licences and shredding the court file

Don’t be disheartened. When you write to a politician, they know if one writes, there are a thousand feel the same way but have not put pen to paper. Here we should all get behind Jewely who has seen a real abuse of power, and support her in her quest for justice for helpless kids.

UOG is right about slavery. In both Islam, Old Testament Law, and communism, slavery is the norm. There are slaves and slave owners, and the Roman Catholic Church was the biggest slave owner of them all, enslaving through its Spanish and Portugese Colonists vast numbers of what they called pagans. The Islamic Moors from Northern Africa and Spain conducted raiding parties into Ireland, and took slaves to power their ships. The States of Australia have enslaved their populations, and use them as a resource, because every State has abolished its Supreme Court in fact if not name.

The current de-facto slave owners are all lawyers. This small group of oppressive individuals, have invaded the parliaments, and while there, in conflict of interest with their true responsibilities, passed laws immensely favourable to making them the ruling class. The two posted in my previous post are the most oppressive, but there are plenty more. Fix those two, though, and there are plenty of people willing and able to fix the rest.

We are still 65% Christian in Australia, and heirs to a Christian tradition opposed to slavery. Slavery could not continue in England after 1215 when jury trials became the standard method of trial. It has been reintroduced into Australia since 1970, when lawyers persuaded Parliaments everywhere to give them absolute power. This is totally un-constitutional, illegal and corrupt, but the lawyers and Judges and Magistrates control the Police and the guns.

Because the lawyers have a cartel, if you want justice you must become a debt slave. They serve until you run out of money, and then they give you to the Social Security, to support

i understand you are confused..[i..wish it was as simple[as peter puts i..[but having had the''benifits'..lol..of 5 trials[with a jury.]...[juries/are not the answer]

jewries are selected by the marshal..[who is..unbound in the limits he can undertake to select/test/sort them..[they..specificlly select those who will be complicit..[or follow the crowd]..as the joe-trial proved..[the jury foreman is usually a plant..[add in the judge will issue his god-like instructions..to disregard this/that proof,..and have his final say,..simply returning juries will change nothing

peter is right..[in keeping it simple]..but..[not simplistic]..the law/system changed well before 1976...understand that it was changed irrevocably at the same time the fed got privatised..[in the 30's]see that income tax changed everything when the bankers took over the fed

under common law[and magna-carta]..we have a right to jury trial[but as i have been told in court magna-carta has nothing to do with the civil law of contract..[our current legal system

see under magna-carta you need testimony from two who personally witnessed an injury..to testify that you caused injury..[under magna-carta you CANNOT testify against yourself]..yet the current suss-tem thrives on self-incrimination,..not permitted under common/law[that we dont have either]

know that jury has the right..[and duty]..to judge not only the crime[but the law]..but ..we get our law..from tv sit-coms[and judge/judy[as a deliberated policy]..under this current adversarial/system the real courts..are nothing like the movies

for egsample the prostituter opens..and has last say..[then the judge]in the movies the defendant does..[but..not in reality]..it may not be seem relitive..that australia wasnt created by the australia/act[nor..the constitution/that created the''commonwealth of australia'']..but its fact..peter must know

the way things are are really closer to usa than peter would be able to realise..[but we have each had our different paths..[australia is an incorperation..[registered in london]

we do have the civil/law of contract..in courts under the judge who has the extreem authority..granted to the ships/captain the law of the seas,,.under maritime tirade laws..allowing..[summery judgment]

i would love that it is as simple[as peter says]..i really would..but sadly know it isnt..we can agree to disagree..i only write that as i think i know it to be..[as does peter]

“It has become apparent that a certain woman was a New Zealander, and wants to become a citizen of Australia. Under the Constitution Kiwi’s have a special place, because they may not vote, but have free and unfettered access to Australia, because NZ was included in the Colonies who could become a State of Australia in the Commonwealth. Just try again, because unless you are a crim, the granting of citizenship is automatic. “

Peter I was told that for the last few years Kiwis have to have “residency” and I don’t. Stupid me thought it meant I had to be “a resident”. It’s weird; we are considered “permanent residents” for tax purposes. We are residents but I didn’t have this “residency”. I have no idea how the non-english speakers or readers do it.

"i would love that it is as simple[as peter says]..i really would..but sadly know it isnt..we can agree to disagree..i only write that as i think i know it to be..[as does peter]"

I wish it was simple to understand OUG.

"We are still 65% Christian in Australia, and heirs to a Christian tradition opposed to slavery. Slavery could not continue in England after 1215 when jury trials became the standard method of trial. It has been reintroduced into Australia since 1970, when lawyers persuaded Parliaments everywhere to give them absolute power. This is totally un-constitutional, illegal and corrupt, but the lawyers and Judges and Magistrates control the Police and the guns."

The courts have power? But that makes sense, even the PM might do something wrong and have to face a judge?

“Here we should all get behind Jewely who has seen a real abuse of power, and support her in her quest for justice for helpless kids.”

I hoped it wouldn’t be abuse at the time, I was too hopeful and ignored what I felt. When it became quickly obvious how scared the toddler was to leave me I should have done something, anything. I was a participant in this abuse in the end because of all the things I didn’t know. 350.

Peter and UOG, I am overwhelmed. It does not often happen in my world that complete strangers stop to help, teach and explain. It has not so far been a lot of fun learning more about how the world works and I never realised just how much religion there was in the law and how Australia got to where it is.

I think I realised the complaint with the O’s office must be withdrawn. There seems to be no good in this where they send the problem back to the agency one complained about. A meeting to be arranged where they explain to me why it happened and why no one cared would be the final insult to everyone here that loved her. I have a child here that a judge asked me to keep for awhile (me personally), this little one is bored because since lodging the complaint there has coincidentally been no more children placed with me. There is another child (older) who wishes to come stay and this, coincidentally, seems to keep being delayed and she is unhappy.

Kevin is still getting his letter, maybe that wee girl will get one back, one day.

I will keep reading, learning, I’m not finished. The children and how they are treated concern me still and I don’t want other children treated like this, or treated any bad way while in foster care. The foster carers have no voice and there are too many coincidences when one causes a fuss.

I have found to many grieving biological parents on line to ignore them either.

This latest change in law for mandatory reporting with the addition of one word, I believe, endangers children. From “risk” to “significant risk”. Neglect happens slowly over time not usually in one significant event. The more I learn the more scared I get for the children. But it did mean no one had to fix the phone system because of all the calls. To take the load off DoCS the Woods Report suggests NGO’s step forward, I believe this is the wrong direction. 350.

as no more follows i presume the 4 post limit kicked in, meaning you cant post till after 7;59...[ok lets call it 8 oclock]..lol

its good to see you getting practrical..[typical bloody woman...lol]we should only change that we can change..[and you are better a mother than a lawyer

[in aborigonal society/law is mens-buisness[..its not your failing jewel,..its us men not doing our job

but us men being men are seeing different sides..of the same problem[while you are getting on with the practabilities/we males simply lack]..i know kevin is listening..[but also know he has further plans..[as malcontent turnbull into votes..decries]

anyhow i see the wisdom of you returning to your self-presumed duty[that of giving love to those fated to think it a rarety]..i..as previously revealed have met many who survived the abuses of state[and person-hoodlums]..maybe its even an obscure form of karma..[a just god wouldnt let vile be done upon innocents]

but there i go trying to rationalise out the why of the matter[al i know is as i grow up i see wisdom in things i previously thought grieviously wrong...[maybe i judge in haste,and maybe in places expand beyond that i know,..but the core and gist of it lies between what peter put and i put,..but its nothing any one of us aLONE can change

meanwhile there are broken-children you need to heal..[as fairly broken myself i can only but say thanks for you doing the little your allowed to do]

[one day our leaders will wake up to the vile/they/we allowed to be done]..but it starts and ends in this realm..[we just need to get through the vile here with the least damage to others..and ourselves] that we are able to achieve

there is good and vile in each of us..[let those without sin not cast the first stones]..[indeed any stones]..in the end what matters is the much better we each did..with the little/bits we are each given.

[between all of us..we know a fraction of what god knows]..both sides of every story...we are but bit acters in a much bigger picture

“as no more follows i presume the 4 post limit kicked in, meaning you cant post till after 7;59...[ok lets call it 8 oclock]..lol”

A long time ago when I had my Bulletin Board System I would have huge arguments with other SysOps (Grahams) about restricting their Users or their posts. They always came back with the “this is my place”. I personally would never tell a guest to sit down and shut up and if they do want to talk it better be short. Now abusive guests; probably show them the door.

I also had to fight to not use an alias which some insisted on hence Jewely for Julie. Terrible having a common name.

“its good to see you getting practrical..[typical bloody woman...lol]we should only change that we can change..[and you are better a mother than a lawyer”

Balancing my hurt without creating further hurt even if it isn’t me inflicting it I am being punished and so the children are included. I misspoke about having nothing to lose in an early post; I am losing my ability to do good/well by continuing this fight for an already damaged child I cannot see or help now while the punishment includes those around me.

“[in aborigonal society/law is mens-buisness[..its not your failing jewel,..its us men not doing our job”

Oh, you don’t learn much about Aboriginals here, I think I learnt more about the people while still in NZ.

“but us men being men are seeing different sides..of the same problem[while you are getting on with the practabilities/we males simply lack]..i know kevin is listening..[but also know he has further plans..[as malcontent turnbull into votes..decries]”

“turnbull”? I don’t understand.

“thought grievously wrong...[maybe i judge in haste,and maybe in places expand beyond that i know,..but the core and gist of it lies between what peter put and i put,..but its nothing any one of us aLONE can change”

You and Peter, same same and very different. I visualize you both on either side of a set of scales. Someone suggested you were religious trains on different tracks. This appeals. 350.

some more 'mens buisness' revealed
http://www.ukcolumn.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/ukcolumn_may09_web.pdf
its 2 meg[or gig]..its the article alan watts referes to in todays show
the show should appear here tomorrow
http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.net/radio/Alan_Watt_CTTM_Live_on_RBN.html

anyhow they both backup the child abuse thing[and then some extra]
of course you may not want to know[and thats fine]i put them up more to validate some of what i previously said[but some may need more proof]

anyhow im currently listening to the rep broadcast[reluctantly]
http://republicbroadcasting.org/?cmd=archives
learning too much as usual, wishing we could get past the problem into the cure[but we men will spend lifetimes debaiting who has the correct cure]

i tend to think the sickoes are simply replaying what was done to them,..but the sickness has to stop somewhere.. when are woman/children going to lead in this?..should they..certainly time has revealed men wont.

“meanwhile there are broken-children you need to heal..[as fairly broken myself i can only but say thanks for you doing the little your allowed to do]”

This does not simply slide by. I appreciate your thanks, if there was room I could tell amazing stories about little children and how quickly they progress. But this is not the place I think. I never see any of them again 106 to date and I know nothing, might be better this way.

I see being on here for me to learn and others show how much they know. Some find a lot of pleasure in trying to hurt, they hide behind the fact that they can’t be sure so continue. But those can be found on any site.

Broken OUG? Will you explain? Maybe not the place, if ever needed I am jaruocco @bigpond.com - caseworkers already know I am online, I have been caught and questioned, complicated explanation wont fit within word limit which I reach regularly. Guilty/female.

“[we just need to get through the vile here with the least damage to others..and ourselves] that we are able to achieve”

This requires faith. I wasn’t raised in faith. I looked at all of them; all with One God are similar to my mind. The differences have astounding affects when you compare with no belief in any.

“… cast the first stones]..[indeed any stones]..in the end what matters is the much better we each did..with the little/bits we are each given”.

Haha… OLO is a glass house. I think this lead me here, I need to give myself more to do good. I am completely horrified at myself for the things I didn’t learn earlier. I could have done much better.

“[between all of us..we know a fraction of what god knows]..both sides of every story...we are but bit actors in a much bigger picture”

I just need a fraction of what you know and a fraction from Peter and anyone else that allows me to ask all my stupid questions of. You really helped me with the “refuse to understand”. 350.

re turnbull..[opposition/leader]

you have/govt authority..over the wellfare of 106 children..[implicit in you being..their sanctury..in times of trouble..[you also must have a legal/standing]..,re their ongoing well-being..[legally]

you might start letters..with words to the affect/like..''as caregiver to 106 children,..mr rudd..i would humbely ask for your asistance,in their present situation,..their saftey and well-being...i am unable to find information,...and am especially concerned about..the details are..what i need is...could you arrange..

as to my own issues they are one of the few things i own..[of no concern for others]..but again thanks for your kind offer..[needless to say they occured a very long time ago..to a child[me],..that in the end helped me to believe..other things..people tell me..knowing such things are allowed to happen..[children knowing things wakes/them up to other things]..had i not had the teachings i would not know all that i now do

we each have our own issues,..i firmly believe everything that hapens is,..meant to happen..[as spirits we are revealed..our whole life,..and we accept the..''life..'mission''..for the life-lessons we will recieve during our..'lifetime'..everything..needs to happen/for the whole-story[of life]..to be complete

real-vile/also allows real-good..[the worse the problem the better the cure]..those that do good,..can only do that good by a'bad'..happening..[without the knowing of danger..we could not fully appriciate saftey]..

were there no bad things,..good would have no..'reason'..to try to be good...its gets complicated..[but we need plot lines,..we need an evil mountain to conquer..[so to speak]..

god made tigers..[tigers kill]but imagine no tigers.[no mosquitoes],no leeches[what would the birds eat,..what would all life die slowly of old age,..no maggots to clean up dead animals..

had i an uneventfull life/i might not have grasped the wholeness that reveals to me the god logus[logic]..i see even the most vile beast [yet loves its young]..i see the passion a cat feels for the mouse it plays with..[even watched a cat grieve his dead plaything..lol]

it is often said[ok by me]..that evil loves its vile better than good loves doing its good..[and if only we had as much PASSION to do good..[as evil has its PASSION to do vile..[the world would be in a better place

What Australia needs is a good leader and I think we have one. He came in at a time when Australia was in an awful mess, and the worst of laissez faire capitalism’s excesses had not yet come to light. He had to guarantee bank deposits, because if he did not, the Banking system may have collapsed under the weight of its broken down governance system.

It is important that he knows what is going on down in the country. He probably monitors this site. Most pollies have a clipping service, that draws their attention to what is happening in the media, and with this site, thanks to its moderator, the truth is able to be told. The things I read here would never get past the editor of a major newspaper.

I am not too sure of Julia Gillard, but that may be bias, because she was a lawyer with Slater and Gordon, and Slater and Gordon have no problems doing really shonky deals. She was involved in Industrial Relations, as a lawyer, and I am amazed that she did not find a way to show the IR laws made by Howard were unconstitutional. They were only possible because the lawyers of Australia do not understand the Constitution and how it in reality is a check and balance on Parliamentary power.

What the politicians must realize is the gangs are not good government. The domination of State Parliaments by members of the lawyer’s gangs, and the domination of the federal Parliament previously by lawyers, was bad government, but Mark Latham as an atheist, could not cut the mustard. Neither could Kim Christian Beasley, while he was shy about his middle name. Lindsay Tanner has publicly stated he wants to abolish the States, and so has Barnaby Joyce. Paul Keating’s government passed all the legislation to do so, quite legally as they have grown too big for their boots, and are just another organized crime gang, in the business of rapine and pillaging the civilian population. They will have a chance to do it, abolish the States this year

I am sure the lawyers who read this will be scratching their collective heads. How is the Parliament of the Commonwealth going to abolish the States this year? Well it can all be done without one stitch of new legislation. The States survive because they are calling themselves God. As God, they own everything, including each and every person in their territories. The atheist and secular lawyers, as priests of this godless State, which has become a State Church, are in control. They sit without a Christian jury, and govern without reference to a democratic check and balance on their absolute lawless power.

Under Our Constitution, there is only one Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, not the nine secular atheist bitches created by lawyers for their own use. The Queen in right of New South Wales is simply a legal fiction; a lie. She is in fact the whore of Babylon, and the one true Queen, must be allowed to assert her paramount authority. She cannot do this while every Federal Court of Australia Judge is in contempt of the Parliament of the Commonwealth by taking an Oath to Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second and defiling that Oath every time they sit alone.

There is one paramount government in Australia and it is going to have to take its role seriously. The members of the Parliament of the Commonwealth both Senators and MP’s have one enormously powerful weapon, to use in their arsenal of influence. It is called Parliamentary Privilege. When a Judge, is in contempt of Parliament, they must answer whenever they sit without a jury, since 1995. Paul Keating’s government enacted the amendments to the Trade Practices Act 1974 requiring them to compete with the State Courts.

By S 45 Trade Practices Act 1974 the Federal Court of Australia is required to not only accept every dispute presented to it, it is obliged to be inclusive, and include 12 electors from the electorate, to be the judges of fact in that court. That is because S 79 Constitution mandates it, and Judges are criminals when they disobey

“…no concern for others]..but again thanks for your kind offer..[needless to say they occured a very long time ago..to a child[me],..”

Rejected; time is not distance.

“we each have our own issues,..i firmly believe everything that hapens is,..meant to happen”

Rejected; instances in time are not fleeting if held in belief/being. Nothing is “meant to happen” under free will. End result is not pre-determined but a determination.

",..can only do that good by a'bad'..happening..[without the knowing of danger..we could not fully appriciate saftey].."

Rejected; acceptance of vile. Analogy; flowers grow in ----. What does not kill us makes us stronger; rejected. We need to know death to appreciate life; rejected and impossible.

Having survived makes one a survivor, nothing more. Being able to handle reality in all its hideous forms, accepted, we must live in what we have created. God’s creation; not now; deviation from his plan. Forgiven; depends on which God one is standing under.

“god,..what would all life die slowly of old age,..no maggots to clean up dead animals..”

Human thought: God made a balance, if God made anything. Humans are not tigers, maggot, mosquitoes, leeches. We do often die slowly of old age now. The planet is not this synchronized but more random and un/lucky. Humans haven’t been long on this planet. This planet hasn’t been long under this sun, sol has not been long in this galaxy ad infinitum.

“..[even watched a cat grieve his dead plaything..lol]”

You grasp more than me. A vile beast will love its vile young and if young not vile will convert them. Cats not as smart as people credit them. Rats would not grieve.

“..[and if only we had as much PASSION to do good..[as evil has its PASSION to do vile..[the world would be in a better place”

There is no striving to do good, it is held in who a person is with also choice of other ways. Evil is not a way of being but a gradual learning to reject/not acknowledge you have done wrong. Then there is balance, people who do both. The normal. 350.

“re turnbull..[opposition/leader]”

I didn’t know that. Problem with not knowing things is that you can’t write a list of them.

“you have/govt authority..over the wellfare of 106 children..[implicit in you being..their sanctury..in times of trouble..[you also must have a legal/standing]..,re their ongoing well-being..[legally]”

Where, legally, does this standing come from?

“you might start letters..with words to the affect/like..''as caregiver to 106 children,..mr rudd..i would humbely ask for your asistance,in their present situation,..their saftey and well-being...i am unable to find information,...and am especially concerned about..the details are..what i need is...could you arrange..”

What do I want? Foster parents to be acknowledged? Children to be treated as people. I don’t think I can write Kevin a list of my wants so there should be something important. Like Peter was saying earlier do I want the right to legally defend anybody else…?

http://raisingchildren.net.au/forum/Topic14115-18-1.aspx

Post #14232 I wasn’t talking to myself in this thread in the end but the user called “happymum” disappeared and all her replies to got deleted.

Hey if I have more to say more I can just link it over to me blithering away on another site. Ha!

think of schinddlers list..[the movie]..a ritch capitalist who exploited..then saved people

go to any church see the born again sinners..[or to aa watch those who reject/repent..the vile they did as addicts..[god loves a repentant heart]..we would be supprised at how may we would judge good..wernt..allways..good

[i myself stole stuff before the realisation theft is wrong..[we all grow-up...those who hurt others are childish..[they havnt grown up in their minds yet]..as for the denials as not valid..[we must agree to disagree]

if i excuse/forget..the vile that was done..i would forget its learning...if i disbelieve that i know did happen..[i would have a basis to disbelieve others]but i know what i know.

i meant to post earlier in support of peter[and much he said]..if howards work-choices proved anything/..it proved states are under fed authority..[there is also that clause re..where divergent state laws fall subject to..[under]..fed law

peter would know he as a lawyer has first loyalty to the court..[as a servant of the court..his prime duty is to see courts time dont get wasted..his authority comes from them[thus he is subject to them]

[i saw the aborigonal legal service was mearly to speed up the court prosess..[and have had many..'free'/lawyers..trying to get me to cop a lessor plea..[a lot of people get criminalised because a clever lawyer advises them that..they wont be believed..or..cant win

your standing would come via the act..[as a person who's authority comes from the act]..thats..what the act's control..those who fall under the act's 'powers'..get their powers from an act...lol..but also from gods higher powers..[duty/honour/motherhood/morality]

“think of schinddlers list..[the movie]..a ritch capitalist who exploited..then saved people”

But this Schinddler wasn’t acknowledging he did wrong, he just started doing good then got upset at the end that he didn’t do even better. And with that I complete lost my train of thought. If you ever watch Gone Baby Gone please get back to me and tell me who you think was wrong or right.

"go to any church see the born again sinners..[or to aa watch those who reject/repent..the vile they did as addicts..[god loves a repentant heart]..we would be supprised at how may we would judge good..wernt..allways..good"

Yep, oh right… but isn’t what made them repent and hate the vile they did the fact that they were, at the beginning, good/innocent? The truly bad would not know to repent. This still isn’t making me understand why good comes from bad or that bad things happening to you made you a better person now. We don’t seem to have a comparison.

“[i myself stole stuff before the realisation theft is wrong..[we all grow-up...those who hurt others are childish..[they havnt grown up in their minds yet]..as for the denials as not valid..[we must agree to disagree]”

Oh me too... Sometimes they are damaged and can’t grow up though aye. Or no one showed them how - or do you think we all have the “how” in us?

“if i excuse/forget..the vile that was done..i would forget its learning...if i disbelieve that i know did happen..[i would have a basis to disbelieve others]but i know what i know.”

I think you could have read a book, let someone else that suffered teach you. You sound like you are trying to desperately see the bright side and I don’t want to rock that boat but maybe you could have had “knowledge” without the experience?

“i meant to post earlier in support of peter[and much he said]....[there is also that clause re..where divergent state laws fall subject to..[under]..fed law”

He’s cool.

“your standing would come via the act”

This I can’t grasp, I had some power but didn’t know. 350.

havnt seen gone baby gone[i chose not to watch sad or murder,or cop/alian/type movies

see that we fixate on doing in this life we bring into being[we are co-creators[god created the planet..but then we modified it,irrevocably

people dont understand this realm belongs to satan..[here is the only place where good and supreem evil can live in the same place]..here there are secrets...[in the next realms there is nothing that is not known/revealed for all to see...[no secrets whatsoever]

think..[if you believe in a heaven,..how in heaven they are all like you..nurturing,loving,supporting each other..simply..for the love of helping others

there is also hell..[in-fact there are many..'hells'..]..there is for egsample a hell for each aspect of vile,greed,stupidity that we humans can concieve..[as jesus put it..[our fathers..'house'..has many rooms

see in this dark realm of hell's..live those who reject love[god/good]

see that there is a vivasectionist hell..[where those ghouls who disect animal's[even humans]disect each-other for eternity..[who ever is the weakest vivisectionist 24/7..getds vivasecionised for eternity[see there is a racist hell,..a rapist hell,..a muderors hell,..a war lovers hell,..there are even vile deserts for those so despised they chose to live alone in the darkness

but know no one sent them there..[thier own love of vile leads them there..when they..'die'..[see that getting grace is as easy as giving grace,..to be forgien..[we first must forgive,..and many do,but equally many cant..[they thus draw themselves to the place of their love/hate[..because they are chosing to love hating]

as i have no wish to live in to live in the child/rapist hell..[thus i forgave my rape]..but they will..'love'..it..[i let it go..so when the time comes thats one hell i wont go],

i will all find out the reality in time,..but either way when we die more..[of the same]..we loved in this life]..will be given..[god gives us that we chose to love...knowing in time we all repent..[satate our vile/..chose to reject our love of the vile..and chose to love love/grace mercy forgivness in gods light....but often our guilt is so great..we chose to re-incarnate[to start afresh]

What we are suffering from in Australia is an illegal and dishonest reversal to Roman Catholic law. The most corrupt and unlivable places on earth, with the biggest differences between the rich and poor, are in South America, and parts of Africa. When the Roman Catholic Church opposed the first referendum to establish Australia the founding fathers had to make a compromise, and included S 116 Constitution. It says four things.

The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion.

Or for establishing any religious observance

Or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion

And no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.

The Commonwealth made a law establishing atheism as the official religion of Australia when it enacted S 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 and created Gods, out of every Federal Court of Australia Judge. This is a reversal to the Baalist religion, with Gods everywhere a Federal Court sits.

These Priests of Baal, then made subordinate legislation, without any Parliamentary sanction, closing their Temples to any except the select few. This is Order 46 Rule 7A Federal Court Rules. The Religious observance the Parliament of the Commonwealth then established is that we must go and worship a Judge, in a Court if we want Justice. We must now engage one of their Priests who call themselves Lawyers, in order to have them intercede for us, just like the Roman Catholic Church has priests to intercede for their flock. Just the same as a Roman Catholic Priest, a Judge makes private Law against individuals.

They have prohibited the free exercise of Christianity, which existed before 1970, in New South Wales, where to go to court ( deliberately uncapitalised) was an act of worship. Before Judges and Magistrates there were two Justices of the Peace, and these were not lawyers, but lay people from the community, and if any property at all including a persons freedom, was at stake, a jury was mandatory.

We are now a Muslim or Roman Catholic, not Christian Protestant

Before the revolution of 1970, laws were enacted that made every one of us law enforcement officers. There was an incentive to be one, and the laws are still in place that say that when a criminal breaks the law, half the fine imposed goes to the prosecutor. That is unless you are a Police Officer. Gradually the lawyers have got a stranglehold on the law, and as I started using these laws, which are still on the books, as S 13 and 15F Crimes Act 1914 ( Cth) a Commonwealth law, they have managed to close off the Courts, ( deliberately capitalized) so we cannot bring sinners before Almighty God for justice.

You see Judges and Magistrates are sinners, because they are acting for Almighty God. Their fate is sealed. They are mocking the Almighty. They have sat themselves in the courts of Our God, as Gods, and do not observe the separation of powers mandated by Almighty God in John 5 verses 22 and 23. There Almighty God gave all judgment to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ himself said only his Father is good, and in Luke 12 Verses 10 to 12, forgives those who take his name in vain, but makes it quite clear that anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, will never be forgiven.

We have lots of Parliamentarians who are Christians, and lots who are lawyers. For 498 years lawyers were banned from Parliament, and Luke 11 verses 46 and 52 were law, and it was woe unto ye lawyers. These are the hypocrites Jesus Christ condemned. The breawk between the Roman Catholic Church in Rome and England occurred because Henry VII commissioned the Holy Bible to be published in English. Henry VII also took away the power of a Lawyer/Judge to forgive sin, and remit punishment. This power was restored to Judges by s 39 Federal Court of Australia Act 1976.

The English did not believe in jail. They felt it was much better for anything except murder to impose a fine, and for murder or treason, death was the answer

"havnt seen gone baby gone[i chose not to watch sad or murder,or cop/alian/type movies"

What is left? This movie is sad, murder, cop, no aliens. So far I am the only person that has ever watched it.

“…the same place]..here there are secrets...[in the next realms there is nothing that is not known/revealed for all to see...[no secrets whatsoever]”

Should some supreme being be kind of taking a look at this realm, giving the children a hand?

“think..[if you believe in a heaven,..how in heaven they are all like you..nurturing,loving,supporting each other..simply..for the love of helping others”

I haven’t decided on heaven, I know I’m not keen on the one with all the white virgins and they will get no support from me. That will be weird, if you like helping in heaven there will be no one to help…?

“there is also hell..[in-fact there are many..'hells'..]..there is for example a hell for each aspect of vile,greed,stupidity that we humans can conceive..[as jesus put it..[our fathers..'house'..has many rooms “

So like dantes circles again. Do you think there are different heavens?

“…rapist hell,..a murderers hell,..a war lovers hell,..there are even vile deserts for those so despised they chose to live alone in the darkness”

I do hope there is a hell for those that treated everyone as equal. Do you blame the person that chose to live alone in the darkness or the people that knew they were there?

“…but themselves to the place of their love/hate[..because they are chosing to love hating]”

Do you forgive the people if they carry on doing evil?

“…live in the child/rapist hell..[thus i forgave my rape]..but they will..'love'..it..[i let it go..so when the time comes thats one hell i wont go],

This is like the purgatory – everyone’s goes but some stay longer or they go there and stay for eternity?

“...but often our guilt is so great..we chose to re-incarnate[to start afresh]”

I am not going to want to come back here… but then yes, guilt will force me back to look after children.

Would you come back?

jewel<<Should some supreme being..be giving the children a hand>>..my understanding is in beween the realms is the sphere where..kids..are..[when they fully grow up they can chose to enter the darkness..or go to the light]

at no time..[till they..actually chose]..do they go one way or the other,..babies is different again..they are raised in a higher/heaven[taught by special-people..[i should imagine thats where your servises will be sought]..its a very special place

yes there are different realms in the heavens..[xtians have theirs, buddists,mono thiests theirs,etc..they may chose to intermingle or not[we have no real concept just how huge the heavens are..many rooms as jesus revealed,..is a gross understatement..there are in-numerable realms

here try reading this
http://www.angelfire.com/ne/newviews/gonewest1a.html

the link links to 5 other book readings
i would also recoment swedenborg..[heaven and hell]

i try not to judge others[..we all make our own beds..[so to speak]

as to spending eternity in one h or the other h..you will find as soon as we show the slightest SINCERE repentance,..we can earn our progression back to the light..[but it must by by a sincere form of atonement[at one meant]

and yes some decieve..[but in the end find they fooled only themselves[those truelly vile sink ever lower,..ending up in the pits..in total darkness..[that reads/feels much like a woumb

[where from all emerge in time..[and get a smack on the butt..[ie borne again]..if they stay there long enough..lol

[how it reads is angels are huge..[the more vile the smaller we actually are[..in size].each level we are smaller and smaller,..those in the pits would in reality be little more than the size of an ant[way beyond any ones notic..[except gods who yet even there sustains our lives]

many of us deliberatly decend into the pits.[thats how jesus came here]..and likely how we all got here..[but it washed our minds so..'clean'..[we clean forgot]

material evolution is a deception[science theory..[but spiritual evolution is a certainty]..we as humans are the highest evolution..[from here we can accend into the highest heavens..[or return as a beast],..[our loves determine which]..recall that'king'that was a beat of the field..[for 8 years]..from the old testiment

"here try reading this
http://www.angelfire.com/ne/newviews/gonewest1a.html"

That was weird. But if we say it is all true, what I didn’t come across was the point. I mean what is the point in ALL of it? Why would this earth (or hell) be created in the first place?

Why make humans, then make them suffer then make them spend eternities being punished for what they didn’t learn and then to get to what… a brighter light or eventually the brightest light? And it can go in circles like we can be here, go down, be cleansed, come back… ad infinitum.

Why?

the why..question...isnt in any book

first..know god is beyond sex...but..i think a woman can understand the story better...see/that god is life..[long before the big-bang was..she was...so..anyhow..she said;..let there be light..[and there was light]

in time all the things went down..[creation/making animals/plants etc]well..anyhow..ever..wanted an equal..[that could share this amasing thing she created]..so just as with the beasts/she created adam..[inteligent.etc..but pure man..[xy chromopsones and all]

some say the angels witnessed this creation..of man from clay..[and god breathed her animus..[life]..into the goyam to give him life]..[and god was pleased rather than amased]..and commanded her angels to bow before this clay-man..[for he had freewill]..the angels/wished no freewill

but..one angel refused to bow..before this creation..[saying he was made from mud..[you made us from fire,..i refuse to bow down to an image..[anyhow more out of loyalty to god/he refused to bow down..[and was cast into the soul/body of a serphant]..swearing he would test this..'man'

anyhow/adam wanted..[in time]..what the beasts have..[a mate]..god wasnt enough for this..free man/spirit..[so god created a clone from adams rib..[throwing away the troublesome..'Y'..chromosone..[doubling up on the x]..thus was made..''xx'..eve]

anyhow god was a bit peeved..[but gave adam..as the beasts have..[today we know eve is a clone..,that adam and eve are..legally..brother/sister..[having essentially the same genes..[and creator]

anyhow..you know about the..'fruit'..thing..[but what is important about that is..the lawyer/..sorry serphant..did ask eve;..did god forbid..[well as we know god didnt..[god told adam..[adam never told eve]

anyhow the serphant[most wise]..never explained it,..lol

but/..by knowing the rules..we know adam as husband..can forgive a wife a folishness..[as father..he can forgive eve his daughter..[and as brother/clone..he could have forgiven his sister]..yet never has..

as to why..god knows what goes arround/comes arround..[AND IF WERE EVER GOING TO LIVE UP..TO BEING GODS EQUAL..[WE NEED TO KNOW what god knows,..and yet..retain the love she holds for us all..[guilt is a powerfull tool to help..'man'..try 2b better..to be good]

ok i didnt reply..why..[but]..if were good..maybe one day/we can ask her?..or maybe we can figure it all out..[that we do/did to the least we did to god]..
i guess she is human after-all...lol

jewel<<..what is/the point/in ALL of it?>>first there really dosnt need to be any..'point',..god does/what god does..[some say we are only gods dream..[yet]..we..feel more than a dream..but..so real are gods dreams/..we become real..ok that didnt reply,,lets try/the next quote

<<Why would this earth..(or hell)..be created in the first place?>>ok try this,..logus..[logic]/god is...she..[logus/logic..thinks]..in the darknes...[i think/i am]..so her awarness/begins with logic..seeking to know just what..i am is being.

so i am thinks/what is this darkness..[and says let there be light], then in the light,..learns there is liquid/firmament,..thinks some more and the firmament..becomes dust,..thinks more and plants/life begins

[each developing like building-blocks..each more amasing/than the next..each..with a living part of her inside them,..in time she gets lonely..makes company,/in time angels reject god..[reject the light,..the dark/hells form,..to let them/feel-like..they escape from her radiance

life dies and goes to the heavens or hells..[some life has evolved capable of operating in a higher evolved form,..some near to adams form,..in time adam is ..'borne'#..and dies,..after him others born/die

some like cain/feel really sorry about killing his brother..[asks god can i have another shot at it lord,..he gets another go..[this time maybe getting abused,/instead of abusing..[god is fair]..next time cain dies/he moves up into the higher evolution

[a star/lights up the heavens]..cain in his higher incarnation..has his own let there be light moment..[has his own firment from the waters moment]..channeling gods light..he now appears to shed his own light/upon his own earth like planetoid

<<Why make humans,..then make them suffer then make them spend eternities being punished for what they didn’t learn>>..we are here learning bit by bit..what god learned..[recall jesus saying that ye see me do ye will do GREATER?

<<and then to get to what… a brighter light or eventually the brightest light?>>..ha ha..[see your getting the picture...lol..[your star is starting to light up a bit/allready...lol

<<And it can go in circles like we can be here,..go down,..be cleansed,come back… ad infinitum.>>..you nailed it..[as long as it takes we are et-earn-al..[just like mum..

<<Why?>>..mums spirit..is sustaining us to live..[arnt mums great?
forgive me father if i miss-lead...lol...why not?[what else you going to do for eternity?]

OUG, is this like a mix of religions?

I am going to struggle to find the why, why down then up then further up then maybe down again.

Is there any other way or is that when we return quickly and start again? The why in the suffering.

This what I can't quite get about faith, that it is faith. I can understand all the concepts even if I question the purpose. But I find it impossible to stop questioning them.

But I'm going to go to bed now and try and work out some answers which probably means I will end with even more questions.

You poor thing, you are being stalked with questions.

jewelry<<..a mix of religions?>>..i..'knew'..there could/be no god..for most of my life...[for the same reasons others..'know',..the old..how can a good loving god..let the vile go on..excuse...

anyhow..in time i realised science..is a huge deceptive/adgenda..[i was so into the evolution/thing..[but the more i learned about it/the more flaws revealed themselves]

anyhow..there was an amasing..[to me]..series of coincidences..[that proved god is real,..so i set out to know/all i could from the god writings..even then/amasing things continued to happen..[like swedenberg..i came across when a magazine fell in front of me in my own libery..[i didnt even know i owned it]

i spent time with aborigonals,buddists,marybakers-crowd[swedenborgs mob,visited mosques,churches,chapples,allways talking about god and his creation,..much happend via syncronicity,web searching,and talking..

in the end/i developed my own joinder..[that i could live with,..that fits in with what experiences i had with god/in live time..it's still refining..[man/isnt meant to know-it-all..]

<<..why down then up then further up/maybe down again>>..the vast majority dont even realise they crossed over,..its reported to be much like slipping out of a wet glove...animal/spiritually evolved just following their nature

<<Is there any other way..return quickly and start again?>>the reincarnation thing is lengthy..[it means cutting off your whole life[but if you recall the automatic writing..[demons take contol of weak minds..[especially drunks/drug affected..[and many medications[like prozac]..possesion

<< The why in the suffering.>>unsure if your a mum...[but if so the pain is soon forgotten]..we have eternity,..of pleasure ahead..[ok most]..its all the better knowing that vile NEVER will occure EVERAGAIN..whilst[in heaven]..but it can become numbing..[painlesness]

but even so they see the suffering..[and many return here specificlly to help end it..[but soon get caught up in the 'life'/freewill/experience..[clean forgetting why we came in the first place]..to help

<<impossible to stop questioning>>...your going to love it when you link up direct to the living god..answering your questions as you ask them..[live time all the time]

<<you are being stalked with questions>>...i stopped asking questions a long time ago..[i love questions..[it makes me think..and..[vet out the good responses/from the deceptions]..

one question has so many answers..both good/bad,..true AND faulse..we reveal much of our inner..by which we accept as true

anyhow today its back to the matters of the flesh, alex today[3rd hour is exposing the pedophile scam]..you click on the listen to broadcast link..the link is where i posted it previously

or if you miss it its in the archive link i posted later[it seems the reason you chose to incarnate]

i would advise kevin by letter on behalf of the 106..[120?]..you were given DUTY of care for..

[you might mention additionally your concern comes from broadcasts like alex as well as todays news from ireland, google irish catholic church pediphilia[re the acts of pedophilia by the priests]as well as the list of pedophiles being supresssed[by some person/group right here,..kevin would know what list you speak of

anyhow post off the letter, and dont worry about the other stuff

Now I have more question, they need time to mature though and I will wait until they are all grown up and don't make me look quite so much like a four year old.

The file is ready to send but with a slight change of plan given that Kevin is a busy man. It goes to his wife. I mentioned on Grims webiste that it seems to go back in time to the beginning that one woman will talk to another one to complain about yet other womens children not being cared for properly. I have requested simply that if nothing else could she think about this little girl sometimes.

The thread is also added, although irrelavent bits removed and a note that I did not have good understanding of the parts about Law from Peter but I thought that she might.

Yes 106 children, must sit down and recount, I had three in July I may have not added. Out of all of them I know where one is, what he is doing and how he is. The rest I don't think too hard about.

Yes I am a mum, had my own two. They are a boy and a girl, 17 and 18. Boy has left home, doing very well in the IT industry in Sydney contracting strangley enough to where his father works in IT as well.

They txt each other when big meetings are finished in the company to tell one another what food has been left - my daughter and I make fun of them. They talk a different language to us two non-computer females when together.

Do you have kids/wife OUG