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The Forum > General Discussion > Ahmadinejad - Geneva - Israel

Ahmadinejad - Geneva - Israel

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KMB,
Regarding pigs and apes - I think you'll find that the context was that Allah/God earlier turned some people into pigs and apes as punishment and that Muslims will receive their punishment on their Judgement day.

Just as the Talmud refers to non-believers as beasts, dung (and worse) and that Mormons believe that people have black skin as the result of God's eternal curse on them for the sins of their ancestors, it's a matter of how seriously you take this stuff.
Posted by wobbles, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 10:48:56 PM
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Dreamon,
I’m not usually one for throwing up lots of links but I really found Jeff Halper’s (not Joe Helper as mentioned erroneously in my first post) contribution on ABC Fora instructive. He can be found here.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/fora/stories/2009/03/27/2526790.htm

Talking about pigs the other link I offer up to posters is a favourite of my daughters. It is that laconic Australian Tim Minchen’s anthem to Middle East peace.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UO6YlkYNJQ&feature=related

Maximillion, just to clarify when you said “The Iraqi rant was just more Arab abuse” I’m sure you realise that Ahmadinejad is Iranian not Iraqi, neither is he an Arab not are his countrymen. Only about 3% of Iran’s population is ethnic Arab and native speakers of Arabic. The main ethnic group is of course Persian.

Leigh,
I’m sure that the savages and yahoos have done far less damage than the Houyhnhnm’s and with their bombs and their concentration camps. From Wikipedia;

“They have no religion and their sole morality is the defense of reason, and therefore they are not particularly moved by pity or a belief in the intrinsic value of life.” Brings to mind Madeline Albright‘s 500,000 Iraqi childrens deaths as being “worth it“.

“Gulliver himself, in their company, builds the sails of his skiff from "Yahoo skins."“ Images here of dentists knocking out the gold fillings from the mouths of Jewish victims.

KMB,
And Jesus referred to us as dogs now we are all even so perhaps we should all move on?

To me Foxy is so far the only one to offer up a valid reason for repudiating the speech, because it “is supposed to be a demonstration of international solidarity behind sentiments everyone could agree on such as, tolerance, understanding and respect”. I get the sense that some of the boycotting nations such as Australia, Canada, and the US with cases to answer regarding the continuing deprivations of their indigenous citizens and may well have been a little relieved not to be attending.
Posted by csteele, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 11:44:10 PM
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Pericles,

Agreed, powerful stuff indeed.

I was particularly struck with “Although today many proponents of racism condemn racial discrimination in their words and in their slogans,..a number of powerful countries have been authorized to decide for other nations based on their own interests and at their own discretions. And they can easily ridicule and violate all laws and humanitarian values,as they have done so.”

It highlights how idiotic and arrogant Rudd’s call for Ahmadinejad to be tried at the International Criminal Court for inciting genocide really is. The only reason this would have any glimmer of hope is because Iran is indeed a signatory of the Rome Statute however in 2002 the US and Israel (using identical wording) ‘unsigned’ the treaty. I would have loved to see Kissinger or Sharon or Albright asked some hard questions in such a forum but it only applies to acts after July 2002. Perhaps we might see al-Bashir or Rumsfeld instead.

I also agree that “talking about what hurts is a start” but I’m not sure that because something happened 60 years ago that it deserves to be equated with events 2000 years ago. Would we be willing to put a time limit on bringing Nazi war criminals to justice? Should Jewish families still have recourse to suing Swiss banks? Or even should England have honoured the expiration of a 99 year lease on Hong Kong? I felt Ahmadinejad was making the valid point about the Security Council's support of the excesses of Israel particularly through the US's veto power over the last 60 years
Posted by csteele, Thursday, 23 April 2009 12:38:38 AM
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DreamOn, Check out Palestinian history and the Western Wall, heaps on Google. I’ll try a potted overview to give some context.

<< Does anyone know exactly why the Arabs/Islamists were unhappy with the UN's original partitioning from their perspective?>>

There are three suggested reasons for Arab hostility. In 1917 the population of the land we know as Palestine, the area west of the river Jordan was predominantly Christian/Judaic, there were a minority of Islamic Arabs, it was a secular society that had coexisted for centuries. But the Arabic speakers paid homage to King Abdullah of Syria and not to Jordan’s King Abdullah, which generated some animosity.

Secondly, the partition of Palestine was very different to today, there were multiple areas assigned to Jews and Palestinians, all mixed up like conclaves. The League of Nations did a woeful job of this.

Thirdly, the concept of nationhood for Jews, Christians and Palestinians West of the Jordan was a European concept and considered to be a gross interference in Arab affairs by the occupying forces, the British.

Interestingly, Palestine has been under occupation from 163 BC until 1949. The Romans, Christians, Islamic, Mamluks (Arab mercenary armies), Turkish Ottomans, British and even parts of Palestine (West bank by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt).

This history will never be untangled. It’s a bit like sending Eddie Mabo to Europe to establish Land Rights, utterly futile.

Since the Arab Liberation Armies have twice failed to wipe out the Jews and Israel with their own military, they are now attempting to do it by proxy, the PLO, Hezbollah, Hamas and a wide range of affiliated, non State military.

History shows a terrible legacy of atrocities by all sides but in my personal view, the Arab States will not permit the Palestinians to negotiate peace, they are the poor remaining “bunnies” in the front line against democratization of the Middle East. It’s not a religious conflict, its international politics.

Sadly we seem to accept the re-writing of history to suit the various vested interests at the ongoing expense and misery of the Palestinians and the Jews.
Posted by spindoc, Thursday, 23 April 2009 12:54:11 PM
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StG

chimps are apes (no tail) they are both carniverous and canibalistic.
The other apes Gorrillas both low and Highland and orangs are vegetatarians but will all murder for the same the reasons we do.

Pigs are canibalistic.

I think that pigs are considered unclean including carrion because they'll eat almost anything and their meat is prone to parasites and
bacterial infection if not killed and eatened quickly.
Some natives in PNG would never eat meat unless it was killed and cooked sortly there after.It was regarded as Taboo( evil spirits entered the dead bodies then into those who ate {the longtime dead}meat. Even the cannibal Kuka Kuka followed this belief.
With out too much mental gymnastics this could be the truth behind the pigs are unclean and seperate prep areas.ie folk learning given cultural significance.
Posted by examinator, Thursday, 23 April 2009 1:51:02 PM
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all this talk is making me hungry
but i recall the primitives have laws against eating certain animals [because their ancestors inhabit them

i recall with jesus casting out demons for egsample, where i whole heard of swine rushed over a cliff after the demons got put into the swineherd ,mat 8;32,mark 5;31 ,luke 8;33

anyhow research confirms
http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=gd&q=not+eating+your+totum&hl=en-GB&rls=MEDA,MEDA:2008-36,MEDA:en-GB

http://www.wiccantogether.com/profiles/blogs/1070680:BlogPost:380669

..totem is a animal that is affiliated with a specific clan,group, or lineage.

Additionally, certain taboos are associated with the totem animal. Not hunting,killing, or eating its meat are typical examples.

confirmed by a book extract

http://books.google.com/books?id=PbyDxabXrqgC&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=not+eating+your+totum&source=bl&ots=eiPFpg8vzI&sig=h3pQNWZkIOL42rldV0YrrMPB7fY&hl=en&ei=i-zvSeG8KITW7AO958jdAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

as well as by the bible/torah lev 11;7, deut 14;8, isa 65;4, 66;3,66;17.. hope im not casting pearl before swine mat 7;6

or do not suffer us to go into a herd of swine, mat 8;31 ,mark 5;12

or alternatly darwins deception of evolving from apes[shall get the next rebuttal[he plagerised it becomes clear just from previous respondants[what primitive tribe he steal the theory from ..lol
Posted by one under god, Thursday, 23 April 2009 2:37:35 PM
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