Celivia, "How did you come to the conclusion that childhood molestation influences sexual orientation?"

I've wondered about that issue in regard to the impact on perceptions of orientation.

I suspect that the trauma of abuse might be sufficient to leave a victim very confused about a whole lot of aspects of their own sexuality. I'd say the same for kids raised by biggots who spend their whole childhood hearing that gays are an abomination (I guess that the reverse could apply but I've not come across many gays calling for an end to hetero's).

In either case it seems possible that victims could spend much of their lives desperately trying to live an orientation that does not fit them. The underlying orientation may not have changed but a persons beliefs about themselves might have. That has got to lead to chaos.

R0bert

Robert,

Thank you very much for that ...That is exactly my point and it is how it reads if you care to take another look.
Our childhood experiences shape us , for better or for worse..we all accept that I think, why would this be any different.

Celivia, as my brother is gay and I spent my whole life with him, I think I have some credibilty here as opposed to someone who hasnt had my experience and grew up to teenagehood and was very close to that sibling.

I would be not too far wrong in saying that it is not proven perse with any high degree of proof that homosexuality has its basis in genetics..thats not to say it doesnt though,I would say that both are true, it can be a genetic orientation and it can be a preference,.Either way the person is gay.

All kinds of exteranl and internal pressures come into play when dealing with personal and emotional issues..

How do we account for bi-sexuals for examples?

Sexual preferences within individuals is based on many intangibles, we cannot set any one cause in stone..therefore if we feel we are homosexual then therefore we are.

Celivia,

A minor point..sexual molestation is 'child sexual abuse' and the blame most certainly can be shifted to the abuser if that abuse confused the sexual maturation of a small impressionable and vulnerable child.

I believe homosexuality has its basis in genetics and in learned behaviuors which then become inextricably linked to the childs psyche and patterns of behaviour for life.Sometimes the are no defined answers to help explain the why of things...this may not help those looking for a way to 'excuse' homosexuality..

For if they choose it, that may not be acceptable, but if they were born that way, well thats ok.

Im not sure of your point there I guess.

holyshadow "can be a genetic orientation and it can be a preference,". I've not followed the science closely enough to be confident either way on that.

The bit that really concerns me are those who do have a definite orientation but are forced into an external orientation that does not fit.

I suspect that most of the time that is gays feeling they have to be straight. I can also see the possibility that a victim of abuse may adopt a particular orientation as a coping mechanism but can't back up that with facts, just something I've wondered about. I suspect that could be a very troubling way to live both for the person and those close to them (especially spousal partners).

R0bert

Holyshadow and RObert,
I think that I should make my point clearer.
The difference between holyshadow’s and my opinion is very subtle. I hope I’ll be able to clarify what I meant.

What I believe is that in cases of homosexuality there are always genetics underlying that homosexuality.
I don’t actually deny that environment can have an influence- (so here I agree with holyshadow); I am saying that environment by itself (without the genetics underlying it) cannot ‘cause’ homosexuality.

I am saying that environment can have an effect only when genetics are underlying that homosexuality in the first place.
I guess that is the same thing that Snout tried to explain.

You said that environment can ‘cause’ homosexuality. That’s the only difference between our opinions.

I arrived at my opinion from all the information I have heard and read during my life, plus experiences with homosexual people. What they said about their memories of their childhood matched very much what Snout said about his.

The reason I asked you how you came to the conclusion that homosexuality is caused by the environment, was not to criticise your credibility but out of curiosity.
I have been unable to find any studies, articles or information apart from religious views to confirm that there is any indication that homosexuality is caused by environment.
I thought you might be able to direct me to some information other than experience with your brother.

We all have our experiences and some credibility. However, experiences are always subjective.
So, apart from our own experiences we need to rely on research, facts or other scientific information.

Without facts or research conclusions or strong indications, the statement that homosexuality can be caused by the environment is merely a speculation leaning on a subjective experience.

At the moment, because research strongly indicates it, it is highly probably that homosexuality is caused by genetics (with or without environmental effects).

Whatever the cause may be; as you said, homosexuals should have the same rights as heterosexuals and that is the most important thing we have agreed on:)

w, Celivia and RObert,

Thanks for your kind words and support. Thanks especially for the links about gay marriage. My partner and I have been working on this one for about ten years now: hopefully we’ll get something sorted in the next ten!

holyshadow,

I find it helpful when thinking about sexuality to consider three different layers: sexual identity, sexual behavior and intrinsic sexual orientation. Ideally the three should match up, but in practice it doesn’t always work out that way.

Sexual identity is about more than just the labels we use to attach to sexuality: “gay”, “hetero”, “bisexual”, etc. It has to do with the sense of who we are, and also with our place in society, including in our relationship with our partner. I think it is on this level that sexual abuse is most devastating to a person’s sexuality.

Sexual behavior is pretty self explanatory. It’s the layer that people have the most conscious control over, but is heavily influenced by both identity and orientation.

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