Corporations distort the democratic process by their economic power in capitalist democracies, and governments distort the democratic process by their economic power in socialist democracies.

This string also has mentioned the market. The free market is belief rather than reality. Adam Smith, the great economist, wrote the Wealth of Nations (WON) which developed basic market theory.

A free market operates under the conditions:

1. There is a commodity that is roughly the same regardless of who produces it.

2. No producer or consumer is big enough to affect the market.

The only market that approaches that model is the market for agricultural commodities such as the trade in grain. However, such entities as the Australian Wheat Board destroy that market.

In WON there is much wisdom containing the failings of the market and the necessity for government regulation.

WON about capitalist conspiracies:

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies, much less to render them necessary.”

WON about excessive profits and complaining about paying wages:

Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.

WON on capitalist propaganda:

They [general public] have commonly neither inclination nor fitness to enter into combinations; and the clamour and sophistry of merchants and manufacturers easily persuade them that the private interest of a part, and of a subordinate part of the society, is the general interest of the whole.

Hasbeen said
"Hang on a minute, that what happens now."

Brillant Hasbeen. I cant wait for the next revolution to kick some socialist butt.

Antonios,

Your good intentions are not in doubt. I appreciate that.
But the results of good intention which is not accompanied by wisdom are not good.

Trying to do others good by assuming what's good for them and acting on it, has a name: "paternalism". Paternalistic actions may at best bring prosperity and material good, but cannot bring contentment and spiritual well-being. Individuals are content when they progress towards what they want by their own efforts, not if it is just given to them from outside. Socialism embraces paternalism. It is a material approach to life (so is capitalism), and can at best bring material advantages.

You are a proud democrat, but democracy is not such a great thing, only a compromise: "demo-cracy" mean "people-rule", but this is still "ruling": the majority imposes its laws over minorities. Do you like other people's rules being imposed on you? then why would you want to impose your will on others only because you are in the majority and they are in the minority? according to democracy you have that right, but the bottom-line upon which this "right" is based, is might: "might is right".

Human rights are not something to talk about: if you respect them, simply don't touch others. Also, don't invent a proliferation of man-made "rights" (then look chivalrous because you fight for them): human-rights are natural.

If you truly respect another, leave them alone. Do not impose your unsolicited "society" on them. OTOH, if the real issue is that you are concerned about your own safety - go ahead and protect yourself, but then call a spade a spade and don't cover it up by lofty ideas that make you seem like a saviour (same for capitalists: if you want to obtain more resources by stripping them off others, then call spade a spade, at least you will be honest).

You wrote:

"Humans can not exists as individuals and society can exist withought individuals."

IF that is the case (is it?), then I see no value in humans existing as non-individuals and no use in societies existing without individuals.

Ahmen Yuyutsy,
well eaid .Gods word is very simple but to the prideful
it is nonsence. If the proud interlectual continue to shift the benchmark on the meaning of words they will get themselves so confused and lost that they will believe anything that the antichrist presents. Sad but true. For they gulibly swallowed the Y2K2 bug just like the emperors new clothes.

Yuyutsu
"Humans can not exists as individuals and society can exist withought individuals."
Ii is missing the not (the right is "society can not exist withought individuals'"
Richie 10, Ahmen Yuyutsy
Cristians, Muslims, and other religious people have something very common.
They promise to the victims on this planet a paradise in an other (face) world, instead to lead them against the system, which victimize them.
You are very good tool in the hands from any unfair establishment.
Of cause religious leaders have awarded for their role from the establishment!
If you can not live withought a God then keep your God and your religious FAR from the politics. We have to solve real problems, big problems, urgent problems and there is not times to discuss for gosts and myths!
There are other threads where you can discuss this kind of interests
My interests are simple and clear, as what will happen with all these labors who will lose their job, many millions world wide, how they will pay the Bank for their house, the rent for their home, will they have enouph money to buy food? what about their children will they continue school or not? how many people will become homeless? how many children will die from hungry? What political and social problems will create the current financial crisis? how we can avoid in the future this kind of problems?
Yoy see theire is so much pain, so many problems on this planet!
For you it is easy, You do not care at all for THE REAL PROBLEMS FROM THE REAL PEOPLE you weast your time with your fantasies.
If you do not like to support the people in needs at least try to avoid to weast the time from people who are ready to do something to support the people in needs.
When we speak for socialism we speak for a way, the best way of solving or avoid problems.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaid

Antonios,

Unfortunately, society CAN exist without individuals: it may for example consist of ants or robots. But then, why support it?

You wrote: "so many problems on this planet!"

then you go about frantically trying to fix them one by one, but in fact all those problems boil down to one: MATERIALISM. This is where pain comes from.

Just as you cannot fight fire with fire, you cannot fight materialism with more materialism. The problems you listed are all from the perspective of how to preserve our materialistic society: they are man-made and of no interest to me.

For example:

"what will happen with all these labors who will lose their job" - they will have more time on their hands, which they could use for more important non-material gains.

"how they will pay the Bank" - they won't, poor banks...

"will they have enouph money to buy food?" - so much for the use of money, which nobody seems to have enough of anyway. People and animals were eating millenia before money was invented.

"their children will they continue school" - no, they will become free, unoppressed, unincarcerated, and won't need to sit long hours to learn how to function in this materialistic society.

"how many people will become homeless?" - we all are born homeless and die homeless. Many of us have unhappy homes, in which case better be homeless.

"how we can avoid in the future this kind of problems?" - cut down on greed. Find contentment at the spirit-level, not in the material.

I am happy to support people in needs - the people, not their false needs.

I am surprised that you claim to believe in democracy (I don't, as previously explained), yet want to keep our Richie out of politics.

"If you can not live withought a God" - impossible, there is no life without God, there is nothing outside of God. God is the basis of reality - not money.