Today Sunday the story in the Sydney Herald is bound to become headlines this week.
Hewson has told Costello he should go for the good of his party.
An interesting story full of questions about Costello's past present and future.
I am a member of the ALP happy with our directions and progress.
But have no interest in who leads the opposition.
I do agree with Hewson, most importantly his view Costello is unelectable.
And I think the very best man to lead the Liberals, maybe one Day to victory, is leading them now.
More plain talking like Hewsons is a first step, a needed step.

Does this qualify as a troll posting? ie Belly's post.

I think Costello has more chance of being drafted to the government front bench than he does of making it with the Libs.

Hewson has been sniping away at his 'lessers' for years, to justify his own failures. Had Mr. MBA forewarned the world of the GFC and been urging policies to counter same his opinion might have some merit.

My take on Costello is that he is very poor at the 'game' and his career is more accidental than anything. Hamlet like in his inability to be decisive when leadership questions arise.

Had Costello resigned imagine the outcry and the quality of the commentary, bad looser etc, should be made to pay the cost of the by election.

Belly, enjoy your preferred poison while it lasts. It's a pity the glass will always be half empty as long as Mr Identikit Man is behind the bar.

Dear Belly,

I've always liked John Hewson. And watching
the Sunday news programme this morning, gave
me even more reason to like him. He's a straight
talker - says what he thinks, and his assessment of
Costello is probably right on the money.

However, I'm not so sure
that Costello will take any notice of what
others say about him. He's obviously got his own
agenda. And I'm not so sure that he won't be in
the running for the Leadership of the Liberal Party.
He's hanging around for a reason - and he's too young to
retire just yet. Besides - he wants the top job!
(Howard promised it to him - and he's not going until
he at least gets to warm that seat).

Turnbull, appears to have dropped the ball in this game.
He played to win by not backing the bail-out package.
He took a gamble - and lost badly. He's going to look
even worse as the PM's strategies begin to pay off -
economically, and they will!

The Libs will end up looking for a new Leader - mark my words.
And Costello will step up and 'graciously' accept because
the "Party" needs him (He learned that from Howard).

The next six months will be interesting.

cont'd

Dear palimpsest,

"There are no stupid questions,
but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots..."

I suppose the reporting of opinions from say Keating and Latham would be considered irrelevant

the difference

none

an ex-politician commenting on the attitudes of a back-bencher is hardly news.

It is almost as less news worthy than the opinions of failed politicians like Keating, who created the mess the previous Liberal coalition dug us out of or wannabes like Latham, whop would have dug an even deeper hole than Krudd is doing,

if such a horror is imaginable.

Palmimpsest"Does this qualify as a troll posting? ie Belly's post."

I thinkyou are right.. it deflects from the real issue... the impoverishment of our children by the reckless profligacy of this socialist swill government

Hewson can say what he likes but is it relevant.

Who knows what Costello's agenda is. After his literary sookfest it looked like he might be off into the sunset but not so. He was elected by the people of Higgins as their representative and if he does this job well he can stay on the backbenchers for as long as he likes.

At least, unlike Downer, he did not waste taxpayer funds on an unnecessary by-election. (Well...not yet)

My opinion is that Peter Costello is patient enough to wait around till all pretender Liberal leaders are disposed of by the Liberal party, the press and the Australian public. Malcolm's performance as leader has been woeful, and his intellectual inferiority to Kevin Rudd on the floor of the House is palpable. There's only one person in the Liberal Party who can intellectually match Kevin Rudd, and that person is Peter Costello. However, Peter is very unpopular with the public and is virtually the kiss of death for the Liberals in an election.

But I'm sure Peter believes he can lead the party to victory, so he will "eventually" nominate as leader. He will lead the Liberal Party into the next election. The liberals have no other choice but that scenario.

I would love to see a Costello led Liberal Government. He would whip the current Liberal hacks into shape.

It seems like the Libs are on the path to self mutilation.It was just a short while ago when we had mad Mark Latham and Lazarus Kim Bomber Beasley.Labor was in awful shape.

Kevin is doing OK while handing out future debt via stimulus packages.When the crunch really hits next year,he will be serious trouble.This is why some think that he will call an early election in November this yr.

A week is a long time in politics and the worm can turn very quickly.

Here's the article in all its glory: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/you-missed-your-chance-peter-20090221-8e70.html

I don't think Hewson missed anything.

palimpsest thanks. you remind me you do not have to have feathers to be a Goose.
TROLL?
you display nothing to convince me your opinion is worth hearing.
Did you read the story? is reporting news ok? or not if it disagrees with your views?
Hewson, in my view, has told it like it is Costello never had the heart to challenge.
Never had the support, could never win a raffle if he bought every ticket.
Why you insult Hewson is beyond me, he clearly acted in what he sees as the best interests of the party.
Live palimpsest with the understanding only Turnbull can return conservatives to power, not until at least another term is served by Rudd.
Insults do not concern me but yours is biased, you seem not to want to hear news that you do not like read the story then comment but troll?
Who believes Peter Costello can lead his party to a win?
Turnbull however if let lead a more moderate party, not lost right party can rebuild, Costello?that sneer long ago sunk his chances.

Costello, is no fool, he knows Rudd is a dud.

He also knows the average Oz voter doesn't like to admit, even to himself, that he has made a stupid mistake, & been taken in by a dud. For this reason, in the normal course of events, only the very worst dud, gets kicked out after only one term.

He knows the first opposition leader should loose the next election, & loose the leadership, thereafter. He does not want to be that leader. Why would he, it's a fools errand.

He has two problems. He is not a good enough conman to concoct a good story for his present course of action.

The financial situation may allow Rudd to stuff up, just enough, to get kicked out at his first election. This is not a pleasant prospect, to replace a dud with a stuffed shirt would not be a great idea, but it is quite possible. Labor must see this prospect, hence the talk, all ready, of an early election.

Howard's dominance has left us with a real dearth of talent in parliment, just a quick glance at the respective deputies should convince anyone of this. I'm glad I'm not starting out with such a bunch of twits in Canberra.

Conservative replys in this thread are mirror images of the party at large.
That basic refusal to even contemplate the Liberal party is inflicting more harm on its self than the Labor party is.
The blindness, the plain dishonesty that will not understand, in the worst finacial crisis EVER in this country, polls show Rudd is selected by big marjins.
One termer? hasbeen your task, your partys task, is to TRY to win an election in 4 years, even 7, the emergence of the extremist right from their bunkers has harmed you.
Turnbull has to please them, he can not concentrate on pleaseing voters.
Costello, he never had public suport, swinging voter suport, never ever will.
His task?whatever he is up to has no impact, he is undermineing his own party.
Long ago. hours after the election I said Pyne would be a good deputy, seems his talent is flawed, he is not from the right, that kills his chances.
Right wing conservatives are not interested in winning government, ripping the guts of of the party for personal gain? yes.
Hewson has highlighted every truth about Costello, Howard, gee his name still brings high blood preasure, has done so time and again.
Costello, will never lead he in fact may not stand in the next election, if true debate is to take place he may bring on a by election before Christmas.
palimpsest/hasbeen here now I say clearly Labor has won the next federal election, your task is a hard one without changes in your party, to make ground on them in the one after.
three cheers for Hewson.

As much as the Hewson/Costello stoush is good spectator sport, who noticed the article in Friday's AFR "Review" supplement, where Mark Latham systematically deconstructed Kevin Rudd's performance to date?

http://afr.com/home/login.aspx?EDP://20090220000030854756&section=review

Unfortunately, in typical Fairfax self-destruct mode, it is available online "to subscribers only", but I would strongly recommend it to anyone genuinely interested in the world of smoke-and-mirror politics. Don't go so far as to sign up, though, that would send Fairfax the wrong signals.

Latham - and I very broadly paraphrase - considers Rudd to be a past master at the art of flip-flop principles, a one-man policy vacuum, feeding us a diet of tawdry emotion and hollow sound-bites.

He presents the case however with considerable style, leaning towards observation rather than judgment, whereas my synopsis above works in completely the opposite direction. Nonetheless, the conclusion that he leads us to is quite worrying, and far more important to Australia's future that a schoolboy spat between two irrelevances.

Belly “Conservative replys in this thread are mirror images of the party at large.”

Labor responses in this thread are mirror images of the party at large

Out of their depth, trying to grapple with that which they do not comprehend.

In short, imagine Swann and Krudd wrestling a giant octopus…. 4 arms versus 8, the two bipeds hampered by lack of oxygen… the octopus wins…

The losers… the Australian electorate

Krudd and Swann will be forgotten soon, they will not become “yesterdays men”, because they were never “todays men”. They are an excuse for a party of incompetents who achieved power on a generational swing and promises to do the same as the then incumbent government plus a few faux-promises, most of which they have broken since or are pursuing without assessment or discussion (ET).

Krudds preferred, “see what the focus group says” strategy does not work when dealing with things beyond the gaze of the kitchen sink. This financial crisis is not as it seems, never has been and the remedies are not as are being applied (and what is being applied has never worked anyway)

So a government pursuing strategies which would not resolve the problem, even if they had read it right… if that had been what was done in WWII, 10% of us would be writing Japanese and 90% would have never been born.

Pericles post alludes to something “ripe” and insightful coming from Latham – not so different from Hewson/Costello but as it pertains to government (not opposition) of far greater concern

Butt out Hewson , when the spendathon is finished and we are down on our knee's flat motherless broke we need not look any further , Costello has been there before and triumphed .

The saddest thing about Costello is that he also believes the same drivel that his supporters do about him being some sort of economic guru.

It didn't take much expertise to raise money by flogging off everything that wasn't nailed down, introducing a new regressive tax system, cashing in our Gold Reserves and riding the crest of the wave of a resources boom.

He even managed to blow a billion on dud currency swaps on his watch and get away with it.

Now the world economy has changed and he's got nothing left to offer from his empty bag of tricks. Selling Medicare won't cover it.

If he wants the job and believes he can do it, what's he waiting for?

Even The Rodent could see he wasn't up to the job.

At least his memoirs had a spine.

Belly maaaaate,
The key issue here is that it federal elections in this country can depend on a very few votes. If 3% of voters (a very small number) change their vote that means a 6% swing away more than enough in most times to change governments. It all depends of where those voters are…Key Seats (swing seats) etc.

You shouldn’t under estimate the fear and self interest of the voter on average.

About 40% of voters will vote conservative unless the coalition screw up badly or continue to be publicly divided.
(This is why the coalition gnomes won’t allow 1st past the post or proportional voting because they would rarely win and their base would fragment into single focus parties under the latter e.g. ON)
Don’t under estimate the power of a perceived champion. Keep in mind most average conservatives tend to be seekers of simple answers. This is often expressed in terms of b/w i.e. if you disagree with them you’re a Socialist and nothing in between as for someone with limited left(ish) views is beyond their comprehension. Bearing in mind also most couldn’t give you a meaningful definition of either.
A logic truism says if you can’t define it, you can’t explain it (or argue intelligently against it).

I still stand by my request for the odds you’re offering.
If Turnbull V Rudd? How many seat start will you give me for a Rudd victory?
If Costello V Rudd, I predict it will 50/50? He is their best hope at least HE thinks he is. He’s like Keating but not as smart both full of Ego. He’s waiting till closer to the poll and then expects to be drafted.
Who else Hockey? (Puk as in Midsummer’s Night Dream) a light weight with a mouth.
Christopher Pyne? More ambition/ego than ability. 7.30 report debacle.
Deputy Leader never. Old boys club.
Minchin …has the same public appeal as a hungry salty. Best to know where he is but look after your children/granny? He’s a head kicker.
What’s left? Who can list the shadow cabinet? :-)

Pericles, surely no sane person can take any commentary by Mark Latham seriously! Mark Latham was a hopeless failure when presented with opportunity. Kevin Rudd's intellectual superiority and parliamentary performance speaks for itself. The rest of the Labour Party are woefully inferior to him. That's why he's the leader, and our Prime Minister. He streets ahead intellectually, compared to the two recent Liberal leaders, and has successfully demolished them both in parliament. The ONLY person in the Liberl Party who can intellectually match him is Peter Costello. The most likely scenario is that Peter will become Liberal leader after the next Liberal election loss; and there's also a possibility that he will become leader (if a leadership crisis exists then) just before the next election, but this would not be his preferred option.

The Liberal Party is a great party, and it deserves to be in power after it's fantastic job of economic management over the years under the stewardship of Treasurer Peter Costello. The Liberal Party has degenerated badly in opposition, and they have become an almost leaderless rabble incapable of effective opposition. This saddens me deeply, as I have been a supporter of this once great party for most of my adult life. My wife and I have been fundraisers for many years, and I'd feel much happier if the current Liberal rabble got their act together and became a "genuine" opposition with policies that could sweep them into government. Currently, they are simply ineffective and hopeless, and are opposing just for the sake of opposing, and playing politics just for the sake of playing politics, in the hope of gaining brownie points with the public. And it's backfiring on them time and time again.

I suggest that you do a little homework, TZ52HX. Search out the item in question, read it, then make your comments.

>>Pericles, surely no sane person can take any commentary by Mark Latham seriously!<<

The article lands some fairly hefty blows on Rudd's credibility - not, as I mentioned, through opinion and judgment, but on observable, verifiable, factual material.

If anything, the fact that it comes from a person that you hold in such low esteem will add to its impact.

Only if you bother to read it, of course. Otherwise your observations hold no weight, built as they are entirely on prejudice and preconception.

TZ52HX,

Latham had a lot of baggage of one type or another, which was why he lost the election in 2004. If that's what you're criticising, fair enough.

But Latho's intellectual ability is actually very high. Have you read some of his stuff? There are two political identities in recent years who have really surprised me with their ability to put forward a very cogent, high-level and intellectual narrative: Mark Latham and Michael Costa.

The problem these two guys faced is that the political world they lived in was not big enough to support their ideas. And I don't mean that in a disparaging way either. They are streets ahead of most.

This just goes to show that there is a limit to everything in life, intellectualism included. The best type of Prime Minister is not the most intellectual, but the one who has the requisite combination of appeal (to get the votes), strength (to hold his Party together and to make decisions independent of lobby groups etc) and intelligence (to know when he's making the best decision and hearing the best advice). All other qualities are not as essential as these two IMO.

Rob, I agree with what you wrote.

Like many ex leaders and ex members of parliament, Latham has axes to grind. Latham's axe is particularly sharp and well defined, and is based on an extremely complex personality and set of circumstances. He has the brains, and now "control", to present any case he wishes very well indeed. "Some" people will lap it up, especially if it suits them politically.

Belly seems like a good time to mention our little bet on the next election; me for a Labor win with reduced majority, you with an increased.

Hewson was the ultimate MBA helicoptered in to match Keatings deregulation/privatisation orgy. He didn't represent me then and he doesn't now. Turnbull has nothing to do with my l/Liberal inclinations either.

The Libs. are in trouble and it will take awhile. That's ok by me; but unlike you and the ALP, they will only get my vote if I think they are up for government.

I do agree with you, Costello aint up to it. I've been saying it for 2 years. But unlike others I see a lack of drive and ambition.

Finally, a friend told me of the following exchange on radio that went something like this:

Ray Hadlee talking to John Della Bosca mentions Dellas Machiavellian qualities. Della responds with something like "don't bring up ethnic issues". Hadlee was left speechless/confused. I can't vouch for the truth of this but very funny.

Good People
Pls listen carefully.
We have tried to educate people on this forum that live exports has everything to do with trade and the economy. Downer created live Exports and Vaile- we now Tony Burke Burke and Simon
If people are 'ignorant to the fact that trade and ecomony very much comes into these debates then dont accuse us of being offpost.

Now we have said this once and for the last time. So sick of the ignorance and unfairness we are addressing this point with the forum owner. With facts!
Now I will get off my soap box and join this coversation and remember the first person who raises the stupid comment that pale is off post has just advertised their complete lack of understanding in politics and trade issues.
The End.

*Does this qualify as a troll posting? ie Belly's post.*

palimpsest,

I think what you mean is each time Belly and Foxy, cant understand the questions, or not like the comments they start a new thread. So yes your correct.

*Dear palimpsest,

"There are no stupid questions,
but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots..."
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 22 February 2009 10:04:18 AM*

Foxy is there a need to use that tone?
I have gone from seeing you being one of our favoiute posters to seeing you as a thin veile for a ALP stooli.

I have noticed you open threads. Once somebody starts to address some real issues regarding that topc you either A stop posting B post hurtful jokes or C.like Belly start a new thread!

Col Rouge and a few of the others posted some informed and quality comments on the ;Have the libs lost the plot thread.

We saw the way in which belly and yourself responded. Cracks about his mother. Jokes about the Poms. Lashes from Belly. I do not have a political preference. We just post on policy.' If people stopped playing sides like school kids we might actually come up some answers between all of us to make changes for the better.

It's somewhat less than surprising, but in all that babbling above from PALE&IF, neither Hewson nor Costello got a mention.

For those who are interested in the topic, I generally agree with John Quiggin's take on Hewson's remarks:

http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2009/02/22/hewson-hits-the-mark/#comments

That is, he generally agrees with Hewson's characterisation of Costello as "Lazy, disloyal, no balls, unelectable" - although, being Quiggin, he finds the "no balls" bit distasteful. Personally, I agree with Hewson on this.

Lot to cover our bet stands me an increase you a decrease, PALE you alone are the reason you can not get an animal welfare thread started.
Col Rouge, you truly must try not to display your rude nature.
The ALP have won the next election, have no doubts examinator, I am a student of politics trust me.
But wait there is more Turnbull will lead, Costello? if he lead a true landslide to Labor historic record one.
Labor will win extra seats, not less.
He will never lead, he got massive tax revenue to get those great results, including fuel tax's, he had no go in him just luck, he is gone believe it.
Conservatives try to say I got it wrong in my mirror statement.
Re read their posts here, see the desperate hope Labor will fall over, they would have to, no one is trying to defeat them.
Pyne? do not under value the weight he must carry, for him the race is a handicap, he has top weight, he is exactly what voters want, what his party once thrived on, but his conservative Liberalism is out of fashion in his party.
PALE, yes I know I said I did not want to talk to you I will stop soon.
In entering this thread to get into me,well does not matter, I truly do not think you understand why you fall out with so many.
Lets keep on subject sorry but I had to answer that post.

I mean. Who do you think did the budget Morgan.
Called the shots on who got subs and who didn’t. Worked with the incredibly immoral principles of Downer and Vaile. Who else but good old Peter.
The problem is as I said you people pick sides like school kids. We need people to take some time to research wants is really happening to Australia and make comments based on that.

I posted this in the ‘Have the libs lost the plot thread’ I suggest everyone take a look at what is going on around us.

www.worldhalalforum.org

So you want me to tell you about Peter Costello Ok, he supported the sickening pathetic immoral IMO Mr Downer who somehow managed to escape charges at the AWB Enquiry along with the disgusting Mark Vaile. Peter Costello had something in common with these miserable excuses for human beings. Every feedlot that he approved the figures on and assistance in setting up via the foreign aid programme he approved through tariffs yet again another diversion of our jobs and value adding from the Australian economy and community. It was funds that Peter Costello might have otherwise alternatively channelled towards the Australian industry.

*PALE, yes I know I said I did not want to talk to you I will stop soon.*
You’re a classic belly, you really are. You have more moves than a Swiss watch. You might find I am not the threat or enemy you think if only you’d stop dodging. We have worked with AMIEU for years!
I don’t mind if you debate me on the issue but to try to stop our posts claiming we are trying to turn every post to animal welfare is disingenuous.

Hewson Has nothing to crow about either. Kevin Rudd had to pay 500 million for advice outside his advisors.
Things are really crook.

While I think that Costello has probably done his dash,Labor fear him more than any person in Parliament.He may not be loved by the electorate, but he is highly intelligent,intuitive and has lots of experience.The big cloud over his head is having the courage of his convictions.
Personally,I like his humour but I don't really know the man.Can we trust him? That is the $42 billion question.We all know Kevin the bureaucrat will side step every important issue and he will probably be a dismal failure,but does Costello have the balls for leadership?

We really have a dearth of talent on both sides of parliament that will be a disaster for us all when the big crunch comes.

Arjay,

I agree with you that Costello is intelligent. But, I think that's the only thing he's got and it isn't enough to be elected PM. He doesn't have the appeal to the electorate and his backbench apparently, and he doesn't have the strength or toughness to make hard decisions.

On the latter point, when he was Treasurer, the Legislation required him to make the hard decision on whether or not to allow Shell to take over Woodside. Instead of doing what Howard would have done and making a decision and wearing the consequences, Pete was out there telling the electorate how difficult the decision was and making a show of going through some inward agonising, like he was looking for a reward for his efforts. He looked weak and underdone for the top job. It looked to me like he wanted things to be put on a silver platter.

For those reasons, I reckon he'd be a risk. If the question is, would he be better than Rudd in an economic sense, the answer is probably yes. If the question is, would he be good enough, I think the answer is no. IMO, Turnbull would be stronger and thus better economically.

Arjay,

I agree. Hes considerd one of the world`s best. If he stays away from the Nats which I think he would do this time he could pick his time and run the country.
Think he`s the only capable, of getting us back out of the red.
Wrote him once, a long time ago, asking him to consider opposing Howard.
I have posted above my personal thoughts on those who he was in bed with but- if anybody can look at the figures can fix things its this man.
Hes got a political savvy that few have.
I hope Costello comes back and makes a some changes. All he`s got to do is pick on something that a pretty hot issue.
Rudd did that pre election but mislead the public. Costello will be right onto that should he ever want to run.

.People dont forget that. We dont intend to.

I offer this mornings poll results in the Australian as evidence in this debate.
What has it got to do with Hewson vs Costello?
Every thing.
Rudd has risen 2% Turnbull stands at 20% no man is better suited to lead the Libs than Turnbull.
Why then are some in his party under mining him?
It is a party bogged down in the past, unwilling to except the challenge of rebuilding.
Costello is in fact every thing Hewson said he was, every thing John Howard said about his potential as leader is true.
Over all this mornings polling, if carried into an election would be the worst result in conservative history.
Looking for fleas that do not exist on the ALP is not building policy's to win government.
Looking to yesterdays failures for tomorrows victory's only worked for John Howard, with great help from a far different ALP.
The dead hand of the right, out of fashion everywhere in the western world, holds a stop sign in the face of this federal opposition.
Go back gentlemen you are going the wrong way.
If you yes you, could be in Rudd's shoes for a while, would you trigger an early election?
Say a full election of both houses?
Get ready to go to the polls while the school yard fights have conservatives on the rack ,we will vote this year, want to bet palimpsest?

That's all we need:

Mr Peter "...and have a baby for Australia" Costello with his hands on the reins of the environment.

If he is so good at number crunching how come he can't work out that Australia can only support a limited population?

Costello as PM means goodbye to sustainable practices and that includes humane animal farming.

PALE&IF,

A few explanations:

1) My reasons for stoping posting are usually only
when I feel I've said everything I wanted to say on
any given subject, and for me the subject has run its
course, and I have nothing more to contribute.

2) I introduce jokes on any thread merely to lighten
things up when I feel that posts are getting to
emotional between posters.

3) I start any new thread on topics that I'd like to
be discussed by other posters on this Forum. To
get a variety of opinons from which hopefully we can all
learn and grow.

4) Any quotes that I give in my posts are merely a
response to a previous post by a given poster,
and are intended as a subtle tease. The subtleties may
be lost on some people however.

5) As far a being an "ALP stooli," as you called me.
I'm not even sure what that means.

I tend to stay away from labeling people, especially as
far as politics is concerned. Because my feelings tend to
change towards various parties, depending on their policies
at any given time.

I hope that clarifies things for you.

Cheers,

cont'd

Now back to the topic of this thread ...

An article from 'The Australian,' Feb. 23, 2009.
gives us the following:

"Malcolm Turnbull has made no inroads into Kevin Rudd's
overwhelming lead: Newspoll."

It continues with: "Malcolm Turnbull has failed to make any
inroads into Kevin Rudd and Labor's imposing lead over
the Opposition after a week of Liberal Party infighting.

With Liberal factional tensions simmering after Julie Bishop
quit as Opposition's shadow treasury spokeswoman, Labor
maintained its 16-percentage point lead over the Coalition,
58 to 42 per cent on a two party preferred basis.

The Prime Minister also maintained his dominance over the
Opposition Leader in the preferred Prime Minister stakes.

Mr Rudd (64 per cent) topped Mr Turnbull (20 per cent) -
a 44 point margin - as preferred prime minister."

With newspolls like this one, the Libs may well be looking
at selecting a new leader before the next election.
And I definitely would not be ruling Peter Costello out
just yet.

Costello as Lib leader would be a gift for Rudd.
He's carries a lot of baggage that would be easy to exploit.

Despite what some people think he still doesn't have the numbers so what do they know that everybody else doesn't?

Hewson's comments were spot-on.

Costello is the only hope for Australia. He is decent and clever.
Rudd is totally opposite, manipulative, gossip-type and cant make a single decision without asking Debus. And we know very well that Debus s...w up NSW quite well. Labor is not what it was once. Labor is corrupt, cant manage finance, we don’t trust them.. Turnbull? The only thing worst than Rudd-Debus is Turnbull-Debus. Remember two of them are friends. NSW corruption would suit far more Turnbull than current Kev747. With Turnbull things will get worse, he belongs to corrupt Sydney Circle, would never investigate what’s going on in courts... I think we are in a big trouble. Go and see this website if you don't trust me. This is NSW in plain words

Belly no bets on this one, I agree that a late election this year is likely, particularly if the econ gets any worse.

I'm curious that you profess not to give a rats about who leads the Libs. and then want to push Turnbull. I never believed people would cop Rudd before his rise- so careful what you wish for.

Hockey is the only Lib front bencher who has any appeal for me, tho I don't think he's leadership material yet. Turnbull will never connect with working people. Nor Pyne. God help us all if the mad monk ever gets the gig. Bishop no.

Foxy, what an ungracious thing to say about Belly.

The only person to lead the conservitave party to victory will need to unite the conservitves.For principles never change, United we stand devided we fall. End of story.

Foxy as you know palimpsest was not talking about me, she was defending her self from an insult.
About time we all stopped feeding that poster, it is a method to change the direction of threads.
Hugely funny, come even you must think so palimpsest, that posts like the one above your last refuse to understand Australia does not agree 64% want Rudd 20% Turnbull, shouts at us screams that most think nothing like that poster.
Yesterday Hockey got to his feet in question time asking a question of Swan.
Even I was stunned when Swan swamped his boat, turned the answer back on him, stuttering and stammering he was beaten totally, had just highlighted his party's mistakes.
Turnbull, is the man tell me who else, remember it is not him dividing your party, its eating its self daily.
Months, not years away from our next federal election I here NOW call the result, only a coward would not have a go.
Labor increases its majority, family first has no Senate seats.
Greens have balance of power in upper house.
Odds against a Liberal victory? you tell me palimpsest, about the same as the clerk of the course winning this years Melbourne cup.

Belly,
Your lack of political understanding is your problem.
palimpsest, Made a decent comment and you have attacked her personally. That’s not a good advertisement and it’s certainly not how a gentleman responds. Palimpest was in response very polite despite of it. I enjoyed her post and was impressed by her insight.
As far as Heson`s story is concerned I didn’t know much of him. Not as much as others anyway.
Based on that story I see a very catty jealous nasty man. Someone who clearly holds a grudge against Costello.
It’s not often we see men coming back from the past to take such a personal swipe for no good reason. That’s pretty common among women but not so much males normally.

Costello isn’t hated by many members of the public. Especially the business people. Sure we all bitched about higher taxes but people had some confidence to invest.

I have already posted my personal disapproval for Costello’s shifty moves. One of those moves included to threaten the RSPCA with loss of tax deductions if they protested about live exports close to a elections Now that’s as ,low as you can go on one hand.
On another hand it was a pretty crafty move if short on morals.
Still only a fool would not admit we could really use his crafty experience and may I say sooner than later. Hopefully by which time we can change his policy’s I add. I wouldn’t mind him as PM. What I would really like would be Rudd and Costello working together and shake off the dead wood of many Ministers on both sides.
Much like john Howard Dear God I didn’t like him but I would welcome him back tomorrow. We are in big trouble in the next four years and Rudds done nothing but play Santa since he arrived.
God help this country

It is far far better that I do not respond.
I time and again have promised myself not to do so.
I understand no rational person, none, could take anything PALEIF posts seriously.
And that most who post here to some degree share my views, that in turning my back, ignoring the provocations, I serve OLO.
Or do I? yes I have read the new PALE thread hidden in there, surely it is so? is a comment saying a new poster is in fact Nicky?
Others have been charged by PALE to be sock puppets or two different people, so very often, without evidence
Threads of interest die, because PALE comes to them to turn the thread to her ends, snipping at posters, or re tracking them to animal welfare.
Yes I should say nothing stay away, but being silent is sometimes the cowards way.
I am not trying to start another car park debate, it however may be a good idea, but OLO should be able to debate politics, the thread was of interest few may bother now.
I am reminded of the frankness of Nicky and C J Morgan in dealing with PALE and ask what is the answer? how do I end debate with PALE?
I did not enter that new thread, wanted to question the boiling live chooks thing, the throwing them in the fire, the naming of a poster as Nicky, but for a while, until this thread was sentenced to death by PALE,I was in control of my thoughts.

Costello isn’t hated. Especially in the business world. He gives people confidence. Hes placed the second best accountant in the world.

Richie 10,

*Hit the nail on the head the only person to lead the conservative *party to victory will need to unite the conservatives
For principles never change, United we stand divided we fall. End of story.*

That’s right Richie 10, and Costello’s the one to do that.

Belly we are just as entitled to make comments as anybody. Your`s are in fact an attack and flaming. We don’t want to hear union talk on each thread either. If you want to discuss animal topics then go to the correct thread pls.

We are like others interested in who is and isn’t going to stand. Its very encouraging to see many posters able to think "for themselves." It gives one strength and courage to trudge on. So thanks to those good people whichever team ou prefer.

Some of us really enjoy debating 'many' topics. I happen to be one. Most weeks I speak / deal with different Ministers offices in one form or another.
We can say way back in history Costello spoke out not long after our letter to him asking him to step up- 'despite' his miserable performance on another issue (which we pointed out to him at the time.)
Of course we would like to think it made a difference.

Having done a fair bit with Costello’s office we agree with those on this thread that said he is feared by the Government.

I have no idea if he intends to come back.

Part of me hopes so and a bit part dreads it. I will try to post some Costello stories in the next few days. He’s a very tough opponent. Strange man good sense of humour, soft underneath. With a mind like steal.
I think he’s been misunderstood as a person but he’s a savage opponent who thinks ahead on hows he’s going to block you.

He doesn’t wait for others to make their move.

It’s like the guys a mind reader.

Dear palimpsest,

My comment was not directed at Belly as you
well know, and my dear, it was ungracious of
you to suggest otherwise.

You asked in your opening post
"Does this qualify as a troll posting?"
And it was to that question that I 'graciously'
responded with my tongue-in-cheek reply.

I'm sorry the subtlety was lost on you.

Back to the topic of this thread...

It seems there are a wide spread of opinions on
Costello:

1) John Hewson has told Costello to move on.
2) Polls have shown Costello to be "unelectable."
3) Senator Minchin says Costello has the right to
serve as a backbencher and "people ought to leave
him alone."
4) Most Libs. now expect Costello will re-nominate
for another term in his Higgins seat.
5) Backbencher Wilson Tuckey says Costello, "...has
every right to chart his own course."
6) Joe Hockey compared Costello's future, "With
Prince Charles' waiting to become king of England."

In the meantime the Opposition, rather unsettled
after its bad week, was trying to re-group, although
the new shadow treasurer Joe Hockey in his
ABC 'Insiders,' interview didn't do too well when he
fluffed his words referring," to the size of the
42 thousand, er million dollar, billion dollar,
the 42 billion dollar er, stimulus packange."

Perhaps Belly is right when he stated in his
opening post that Turnbull is the man to lead the
Liberal Party in the next election. And also that
the Liberal Party should listen to what its 'elders'
like Hewson, have to say about Costello.

Although party politics has
been, and continues to be, a battleground of factions
where friends are rewarded and enemies punished.
We'll have to wait and see what develops ...

>>In the meantime the Opposition, rather unsettled
after its bad week, was trying to re-group, although
the new shadow treasurer Joe Hockey in his
ABC 'Insiders,' interview didn't do too well when he
fluffed his words referring," to the size of the
42 thousand, er million dollar, billion dollar,
the 42 billion dollar er, stimulus packange.<<

Methinks, Hockey was trying to do a Costello and fluffed his lines (Joe obviously doesn't do as many rehearsals in front of the mirror as PC). Costello, when in Government, was fond of saying "thousands of millions" of dollars when referring to billions. No doubt he was told to do so by his advisers, so as to add a "wow" factor when addressing the plebs. Just in case they didn't know what billions meant...

Foxy, seems only PALE appreciates my sensitive, feminine side. Was just having a joke.

Belly I agree, Lab is a sure thing next time around, and deserve to be as long as the opposition are a rabble.

The only reason Rudd will go early is political opportunism in the way Bligh has acted. No other reasons really exist. I would expect him to be condemned for cynicism and opportunism if and when he does go.

If not Turnbull who? There are no obvious candidates for me. Maybe the wisdom that oppositions do not win elections but govts. loose them is true? And maybe the strength of criticism aimed at Costello is the measure of how much Labor fear him?

We all of us should never forget elections are both won and lost, always
My ALP won a couple,,for John Howard.
Simon Crean, he could not win a raffle if he bought the whole ticket issue.
Remember that silly lady trying for her first seat disagreeing with her leader?
Latham, good grief! I followed his every word once.
Watched his web page daily, he was and is a fraud.
Handed the role by Crean, powered by spite he has done the unforgivable. ratted on his party, his lifetime party.
So why Turnbull?
To win you need to do much more than get your welded on voters to the polls.
Can any one? tell me the bloke could win Labor voters to his side?
He has to do so to win, he never can, he may still not stand in this election.
He will never lead.
Johny short bottom Howard, a politician, no I do not like him, but he was good at knowing how to win.
He got workers, unionists, to vote for him three times.
He used our fears, yes many have them, against us, the thought boat people could break down the door.
Unpleasant? yes but it worked it would again.
Hockey has value as an iron bar Tucky type head kicker, Bishop too, others follow but Turnbull?
He in time can turn ALP voters to Liberals.
After in my view three terms is served by Rudd.
As creeping over confidence gets a hold, Rudd may not provide enough air/ limelight to the one to follow him say, Bill Shorten.
Right now the wounds inflicted by Howard on those he won over then betrayed are raw.
It will take more than opposition for oppositions sake to win.
A return to Liberalism concerns me, see I never want to see them win, workchoices scared me for life, I can not forgive it.
But I know unless we have learned much from NSW in time, 3 terms, my party may fall like over ripened fruit
Turnbull is the man to win then.

Dear palimpsest,

Thanks for responding.

I'm glad that we got that cleared up.

I also feel that Turnbull won't be giving up
that easily and there will be many more
casualties along the way before the next
election

Dear Belley , Like me you should give up drinking , it's bad for you .
People don't turn into Liberals or Labourites .
Swinging voters are "nothings" they simply sniff the wind and back the winner .
Somehow it's a bit like booze , economics you see .
Beer : no good economically wanting , but good for the economy providing B-Double loaded .
Cask of Moselle , two Headaches , not user friendly , ok when full .
Flagon of Muscat , Brown Rat !! three headaches , user friendly , comfortable to cuddle .

Beer for Rudd.
Moselle for Turnbull.
Brown Rat for Cossie !!

Shazbaz001, if only that was true, that people do not switch party's.
Lets get to the drinking first, important stuff, once 16 schooners a day then spirits no need to go past one or two now.
If people not swingers, did not change party's Howard would have been a one termer.
He won over far more once ALP voters than you would want to think, as Rudd, clearly has won many conservatives to his side.
Taking them back is no easy task, I am not blind, I see Turnbull trying to impress not voters but his own party.
I however see rare glimpses of a man who understands his task, in hard times for him he knows he must not stand still.
His double back flip with a twist on emissions control, opposing it then demanding more, may work.
Most know it for what it is, me too or anything you can do I can do better.
But the shallow end of the pool will aways be unaware it is hard to know what he thinks.
When the party backs Turnbull, if they do, we will see a different man.

Dear ShazBaz001,

"Candy is dandy,
But liquor is quicker..."
- Ogden Nash. :)