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The Forum > General Discussion > On buying Zeus, before buying Jesus...

On buying Zeus, before buying Jesus...

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Ancient Egyptians worshipped, Ra. Pidias built an enormous statute honouring Zeus. Historically, Hawaiian islanders believed in a trinity, where, one god (Io) was of three parts; Kane, Ku and Lono. For traditional, Australian aboriginals, Altjira is the god of the sky. Today’s Christian, if born a Latin in the first century, would be calling Christianised Jews, atheists. Since the Enlightenment, more and more people do not believe in a divinity at all.

1. Does not the above brief outline suggest any appeal to Free Will in relation to Faith is critically diminished by Determinism? Given variations in one’s time & place of birth and nurture; how can any belief in any one religious faith, be held the more the valid?

2. Is the OT wrong: Is there more than god or, at least many means to worship one god? Why Yehaw? Why not Zeus?

3. Why do many religionists worship one god before other? Is a Holy Spirit or a Society at work in directing the choice?

4. Why would an omniscient entity require worship, anyway?

5. Is Atheism eminent because atheism fully addresses all religious belief, whereas, each religion is merely one part of a greater whole, Theism? Doesatheism offer a more intact gestalt?
Posted by Oliver, Monday, 16 February 2009 1:34:05 PM
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Let's makes this a little easier to swallow:

There are many gods. Ancient Egyptians worshipped, Ra. Pidias built an enormous statute honouring Zeus. Historically, Hawaiian islanders believed in a trinity, where, one god (Io) was of three parts; Kane, Ku and Lono. For traditional, Australian aboriginals, Altjira is the god of the sky. Today’s Christian, if born a Latin in the first century, would be calling Christianised Jews, atheists.

Does Free Will in relation to Faith diminish because of Cultural, Societal and Familial driven influences? Do theists choose their gods freely?
Posted by Oliver, Tuesday, 17 February 2009 9:15:19 PM
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"Do theists choose their gods freely?"

NO.

Majority are indoctrinated as children.

Next question please.
Posted by Fractelle, Wednesday, 18 February 2009 8:54:49 AM
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Dear Oly,

You asked, "How can any belief in any one religious
faith be held the more valid?"

Realistically, it can't. But as we well know there
are a large number of religions, many of whose
members are convinced that theirs is the one true faith
and that all others are misguided, superstitious, even
wicked. For example most Western Christians, being white,
tend to think of both God and Jesus as white. The idea
of a black God is foreign to them, and portraits of
Jesus frequently present him as a blond Caucasian rather
than as the person of Semitic features he no doubt was.

Is there more than one God?
Of course. polytheism, in cross-cultural terms is a belief
in a number of gods. There is usually a "high god," who is
often the "father," of the other gods and somewhat more
powerful than they are. The lesser gods have specific
spheres of influence such as, war, harvests, earthquakes,
and so on.

Why do many religions worship one God before another - Is the
Holy Spirit or Society at work?
I believe that the origins of religion were social, not
supernatural. The rituals enacted in any religion enhance the
solidarity of the community as well its faith.

Religious rituals such as Baptism, Bar Mitzvah, Weddings,
Sabbath services, Christmas Mass, and funerals, these
rituals bring people together, to remind them of their
common group membership; to reaffirm their traditional
values; to maintain prohibitions and taboos, to offer
comfort in times of crisis and, in general, to help
transmit the cultural heritage from one generation to
the next.

Why would an omniscient entity require worship anyway?
Its part of a ritual. A formal, stylized procedure,
such as prayer, incantation, or ceremonial cleansing.
Ritual is a necessary part of religion because it inspires
awe, reverence, and deep respect, for the sacred. It is
regarded part of the supernatural world
rather than the ordinary world.

What does atheism offer?
An alternative belief to the supernatural.

Do theists chose their gods freely?
Yes.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 18 February 2009 10:51:11 AM
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cont'd

Dear Oly,

To your question: "Do theists choose their gods freely?"
I answered Yes, because I was thinking of adults. Who
are free to choose what they believe in. But as Fractelle
pointed out - children are often indoctrinated into the
religions of their parents - so I guess my answer would
have to probably realistically be "No" as well.

As Mr Thwackum, a character in Henry Fielding's novel,
"Tom Jones," declares:

"When I mention religion, I mean the Christian religion,
and not only the Christian religion, bu the Protestant
religion, and not only the Protestant religion, but the
Church of England."

Most people are like Mr Thwackum: when they mention religion,
they have their own in mind.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 18 February 2009 10:59:45 AM
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Foxy

Love how you look at both sides of an argument, until you wrote your second post I was going to post a rebuttal.

I still think that adults, generally speaking, don't freely choose their gods (or religion) as the majority stick to whatever one that their culture is dominated by.

For myself as a WAS/Celtic Australian I was baptised (parents just followed tradition) sent to Sunday school (more for social reasons) and endured some compulsory R.I at school. I freely chose not to believe in formal religion of any type, I find the idea of a paternalistic god-in-the-sky laughable (sorry Foxy), however, I do remain open to the fact that we humans do not know everything and are unlikely ever to know everything.

However as adults we are free to choose whether or not to believe in a deity, it all depends on how well the childhood indoctrination took and on personality as well I suspect. For example, people like Runner, Boaz/Carp seem programmed to be seriously religious and would no doubt be equally fervent muslims had they been born somewhere like Iran or Iraq.

For others, like your good self Foxy, you are free to choose the very best aspects and discard the rest, like stoning women and hating homosexuals.

Children don't have much choice but to follow the beliefs of their parents. As we have seen, while religion is treated as somehow "more special" all religions will continue to produce a small percentage of extreme fundamentalists because some people simply like to think they are better than everyone else.

Cheers m'dear
Posted by Fractelle, Wednesday, 18 February 2009 11:58:19 AM
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