So as not to hijack Ludwig's Doughnut thread I have moved this discussion here.

I said "Perhaps all of us have done things in our youth that we later regret. When I was a struggling student of the 70s/80s I worked for a business that grossly underpaid us in a time of high unemployment. We got paid cash in hand, no penalty rates and for well less than award wages. We did make enough to live on (just) but this was by working Saturdays and Sundays from about 9am until midnight in the summer (the shop was at the beach).

My friend and I used to work out how much we were owed and take the exact amount calculated as owed in the worth of goods from the business.

Typical youthful impulsiveness and sense of righteousness. We thought we were taking the law into our own hands and exacting our own justice if you like. Neither of us would ever 'steal' as such. Sometimes it is easy to make excuses for bad behaviour but in essence it was stealing."

Davidf responded:

"Dear Pelican,

Your employer stole from you by paying sub-standard wages. You stole from your employer by taking his goods.

Possibly, your employer justified his substandard wages by assuming you would steal from him and that you would still steal even if you got your full entitlement.

You don't sound as though you would have stolen if you had been fairly paid.

Perhaps this calls for another string."

What to others think? Is there any situation where stealing is justified?

Let me add, I don't think my actions were justified in hindsight just the foolish actions of youth to correct an injustice. We thought about reporting the employer but even if we had got back pay (there were no time sheets) we would have lost our jobs.

One situation I would think most would consider stealing as justified is during war. If you can sieze the other side's tank to prevent further casualties it is acceptable as part of wartime activities and hostilities. Theft would be seen as a legitimate tactic in this case but I cannot think of any other.

Dear Pelican,

Is stealing ever justified?

I guess my answer would be it depends
on the circumstances.

History is full of incidents where
people stole out of hunger. Out of desperation, under
dire circumstances, where they had no other alternative
but to steal. In some cases it may be a case of re-claiming
what was "stolen" from them - as in your example.

Until we know the circumstances, we can't really judge.
So, Pelly, I guess all I can say is - it depends on
the circumstances. Of course, the law wears a blindfold
for a reason, and it may see things differently.

Pelican “Your employer stole from you by paying sub-standard wages. You stole from your employer by taking his goods.”

That is no justification any more than is the pursuit of anarchy justifies anything.

“I worked for a business that grossly underpaid us in a time of high unemployment.”

One question, in times of high unemployment what is the prevailing “rate of pay” which you were “underpaid by?

Could your boss have sacked you and replaced you with someone else who he equally “underpaid” ?

If he could do that, surely you are overestimating the prevailing “rate of pay” for the job?

Simply put, what you consider as the poor behavior of your boss in no way justifies or excuses your poor behavior

And as I thought I might get to read from you….

“Let me add, I don't think my actions were justified in hindsight just the foolish actions of youth…”

In the above I think you are absolutely right and what I would have anticipated you would suggest, based on having come to my own conclusions to the quality of your character, as gleaned from your previous posts across a range of topics, :- )

although
“…to correct an injustice”.
Sounds like “self-justification” and out of character for you.

I think the only time that stealing is justified is when someone has first done it to you.

While the purists don't like it - and I don't really like it either - sometimes stealing is just a case of getting even.

An example... Getting those speeding tickets for no more than going along with the flow of traffic and doing a few kms over the limit. As well as many other arbitrary fines that are imposed by authorities and bureaucracies.

If we are ever lucky enough to get even, we tend to cheer.

In a world without absolutes the notion of stealing being wrong is a joke. Secular thinking is full of contradictions and huge double standards. Just like in the times of Judges everyone does what is right in their own eyes. That is why it is okay to murder a baby inside the mothers womb but a criminal offense to kill it when it pops out. That is why it is illegal to kill a shark that eats a man but to sit down legally at a fish and chip shop and enjoy flake. That is why it is legal to emotionally blackmail a man and then a criminal offence for him to retaliate. Secular thinking leads to all sorts of justification for wrong. If it was not so sad it would be quite amusing as people violate their consciences by justifying their bad behaviour.