Pelican, what an interesting question. I agree with Foxy's point.

Runner, there are no absolutes. Not even when using the bible as a guide. Just look at the commandment: Thou shall not kill.

It looks simple and unequivocal, but I bet you'd be able to quote bible verse and all when it is OK to break this rule.

Good to see ColR is true to form. Hates 'anarchy' and law breaking from certain ranks (employees, most likely dull losers without ambition), but endorses law breaking from other ranks (employers, most likely deserving entrepreneurs with high ethical standards).

Pelican, your story serves to remind us that greed and unethical behaviour is unfortunately the most likely behaviour from human beings. ColR would disagree with me, but then he must have either blinkers on, is a relentless romantic, or simply lives on another planet.

Is stealing ever justified?
1. If you are a golden boy and the money come from tax payers then sure you can steal them. But why to steal them when Bush and other politicians will offer them to you for free for a generous bonus?
2. If you are an employer and the unions are weak then you can steal from your employees. But why to steal from your employees when Howard's industrial Relations law give you the right to do what ever you want on your employees?
3. If you leave your wallet in your car with opened window or unlocked door, then anyone can steal your money as you encourage, provoke the others to steal your money!
4. Do not steal if you do not know how to hide them!
5 If you steal stolen money then you are not a theaf, simple you took them!
6. Do not steal if you do not know how to use them!
DO NOT STEAL SIR IF YOU WANT TO LIVE A QUITE, CALM, SIMPLE AND HAPPY LIFE.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

Anansi "but endorses law breaking from other ranks (employers, most likely deserving entrepreneurs with high ethical standards)."

Please quote from my posts and only from my posts (and not Examinators misrepresentation)

Where I "endorse" (your word) the breaking of the law by anyone at any "rank", class or position in life?

I await your response with interest

As for Anarchy.... yes I find those who descend into "anarchy" deserve to be exiled to a small island, maybe off the coast of Tasmania and left their to rot in the effluent of their own existence.

Regarding "greed and unethical behaviour is unfortunately the most likely behaviour from human beings. ColR would disagree with me,"

I would disagree with you.

I understand it though.

You are merely projecting your own absence of ethics onto what you assume is common from other human beings.

regarding "but then he must have either blinkers on, is a relentless romantic, or simply lives on another planet."

I have no blinkers, I am romantic but not rrelentlessly so and I do live, very well, on this planet,

I do not steal from my employer, the Tax office or anyone else and in the past, when I had an insurance claim which was overpaid due to an error by the insurer, I sent back the Cheque and they re-issued one for the correct and lower amount.

Obviously a hypothetical employee and employer relationship between you and I could only exist with you as employee, because there is no way on earth I would work for someone who projects such an appauling lack of ethics as you have done in your post (there are other words I could use but such terminology often leads to being sin-binned by GY and you are not worth the risk of that)

but I would likely leave you to find employment elsewhere because I suspect you would fail even the first and simplest interview question.

I cannot prevent you from making unwarranted judgments to my character
but in the spirit of reciprocation, expect a candid and frank summary of yours in return.

Col Rouge

"I do not steal from my employer, the Tax office or anyone else ..."

An accountant who didn't steal from the tax office. Well, that'd have to be a first.

Col, cut the phony indignation about the 'unwarranted judgements' on your 'character'. Anansi and examinator were both perfectly correct to deduce from your little lecture to Pelican exactly as they have done. Their reading of your text is spot on, as are both their comments.

Attempting to bully them into producing exact quotes is typical power play on your part and is totally unnecessary. We don't need a tedious word-for-word re-enactment in order to follow the debate. You might, but we don't.

Col
No offence taken - really. I understand your position in terms of your ethics as I have a pretty strong moral compass myself and while I may not be as black and white as yourself, I can be at times. As I said it was the folly of youth and I know you get that. :)

Bronwyn
You and I are very much alike - fairly centrist with a left leaning and from the many erudite comments you make on OLO I see we view things from a similar position. I do not condone the actions of the employer at all, but as Col said I was more speaking of ethics from the viewpoint of my behaviour rather than the employer in this situation (following on from the comments by davidf on another topic). Taking the law into my own hands was not the smart thing to do and I only regret not reporting him to IR authorities at the time, because he probably went on to continue exploiting other students. But we live and learn.

Anansi
You said "Pelican, your story serves to remind us that greed and unethical behaviour is unfortunately the most likely behaviour from human beings."

I don't necessarily agree it is the most likely behaviour but I do believe that we need some regulation to ensure that in the event of such behaviour the most powerless and vulnerable are protected. Most of my employers have been ethical and we enjoyed very good employee/employer relationships.

Interesting discussion, pelican.

Having read the comments thus far, I'm not sure that we're all talking about the same thing when we're talking about "stealing". For me, the Macquarie dictionary definition concurs with my understanding of the act that the term describes:

<< steal...

1. to take or take away dishonestly or wrongfully, esp. secretly.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, word,s etc.) without right or acknowledgement.
3. to take, get or win by insidious, surreptitious, or subtle means.
[...]
6. to obtain more than one's share; appropriate entirely to oneself.
[...]
10. to commit or practise theft.
[...]
13. Colloq. something acquired at very little cost or at a cost well below its true value >>

More simply, stealing is taking or getting something belonging to someone else by dishonest or wrongful means. It all turns on who rightfully owns the object(including intangible objects) that is taken, and the means by which it is taken from the owner.

[cont]