Divorce Doctor, maybe you should take some time and have a look at my posts on issues such as the misrepresentation of DV and child abuse then have a review if your observations about me.

Greer appears to be a biggoted creep, I've not seen her book so can't comment directly but what I've see from her on other issues recently leaves me thinking that she has become some what of a sad joke.

I do think it significantly hurts the cause of men seeking equal treatment when others fire off half baked in a manner would do the most extreme of feminists proud if the terms were reversed.

There are plenty of women who support feminism who don't want double standards, one of the things I try and achieve here is the kind of balance that lets me be taken seriously by those wanting equality.

There are areas where men are getting a raw deal, and others where women still do it hard. Assuming that members of your own gender are always the innocent party does not fix that, it just entrenches the conflict.

The fellow involved in the photo's may be innocent, that will be for the courts to decide but to assume that the only way he could have taken obscene photo's is for someone else to be behaving obscenely shows either a determination to believe the worst of women or an extreme narrowness of thinking.

R0bert

well Morgan, I think your slip [no pun intended] is is showing too

Firstly you take me to a "news" web site and I find right in front of my eyes that I am looking "down the slip" of a very scantilly clad woman in an advertisement, and meanwhile the "spin headline" mentions "up the skirt" as the "verdict" for man in CBD [no longer in Mall]

but then we find that is simply third hand hearsay from "the police" and that no such pleading is being made at all to the court, but rather the very valid "privacy" concern. This gets back to my original comment re "street photographers" and quite apart from any "obscenity" question, does such a person have to ASK before he takes your photo?

Next question is if photo is for private [as we assume in this case] use or as we see below for Greer, for her own financial gain

"Police said the man from Mooroopna in Victoria had been spotted using a mobile phone to film up women's skirts in the Surfers Paradise CBD yesterday.

He will appear at Southport Magistrates Court today charged with observations or recordings in breach of privacy."

But still not one peep from you on subject of Greer who not only takes full frontal shots of boys [so no need for up or down shots] but publically admits her love of masturbating these boys [but you will notice the ABC deleted one of her references on LNL "I like boys because boys ejaculate far more often then men"]. Or her answer to a reporter of what she thinks about boys - "buckets of semen, buckets of semen, that's what I think"

As I say any man that did that would be locked up for life

and oh yeah, the boy [now a man] on front cover of her book did NOT give his permission to use his [upskirt, if you will, going forward] image - so "shove that up your skirt", going forward

what is so perrrrfect here is the new PC Flavour of the Month word "upskirt" and its derivative "going upskirt"

I had never heard it because I am not PC, but in remaining silent on Greer, our friend lept in with upskirt, and next we see Mr Plod uses it too but ONLY for his media spin side of face [to confirm all men are wifebashers so he can retain his easy job roaming the Mall for upskirts rather than chasing dangerous criminals]. But on other side of face [before magistrate] he too remains silent

This is what Don Watson in Death Sentence calls a Weasel Word, ie "the man was 'going upskirt', going forward, at the end of the day, towards closure, going forward"

Understand? - as I said earlier, just the same as Mal Brough [pronounced Bruff] the new Minister for Family Degeneration has grabbed the American expression "deadbeat dads" and run a media campaign of "hounding deadbeat dads to their graves" - just as good for vote catching as Howard chuckin a few kiddies overboard, in our Rich Australian Tapestry of Politically Correct Mania, going forward, going downblouse.

Divorce Doctor, nothing PC about "upskirt" that I know of. It's a term used by some porn site promoters to refer to photo's taken by holding a camera under a womans skirt and taking a photo of her undies - generally without consent. I guess it could also be used for close up shots of the undies of women sitting in a way that leaves their undies visible. Photo's for a cheap sexual thrill of women who have generally not chosen to expose themselves their undies to public view.

If that is what has been done we are not talking about innocent holiday snaps by a tourist trying to capture the mood in schoolies week, we are talking about an old man getting sexual thrills from young girls.

It will be up to the courts to determine if the accused is guilty.

I've had a look at a number of reviews and discussions of Germains book. I've not seen any discussion which rejects the general claim which is that the book is designed to encourage women to look at underage boys in a sexual manner. It would appear that most of the images are already in the public domain - art works etc. The book would appear to be an encouragement to paedophelia and using images not generally considered pornographic in a pornographic manner.
Germain appears to have played on the boundary line between pornography and art, the photo's are reported to be art the use is child pornography.

If what I've read is a fair representation of what the book is about (and I've not seen any serious contradiction of that) Germain, her editor, her publisher and her distributers should be treated as child pornographers.

I don't know how well existing laws deal with a collection of otherwise legal images used to promote paedophelia.

R0bert

As far as poor old Germs is concerned, I agree that she appears to have lost it. However, assuming that her sexual partners are of legal age, I fail to see the problem in her getting it on with young studs per se. Writing about it and talking about it on TV is in my opinion rather tacky, but I would think much the same about a male middle-aged has-been regaling us in his exploits with much younger women. In her case, it's put her back in the news, and even I wouldn't be gobsmacked if that was her intention ;)

DD: "Understand?"

Frankly, no. In fact, I'd be seeking counselling of some sort if I did.

CJ Morgan, I don't know if any actual contact is involved. Likewise the stuff I've seen does not spell out the age of the "boys" but tone of the pieces suggests that Germain is encouraging women to have sexual interest in boys who are not men.

In seaching for excerts from the book I found references to other books on boys ( an picture book and some short stories) by male authors which seemed to be gay fiction. I also found some interesting comentary at http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1059174,00.html including the following

"Her statement that recently "the age-old collaboration between mature women and boys in search of sexual enlightenment was at an end, officially at least", sits oddly with the current resurgence of interest in such matches. Right now, Mrs Robinson seems as alive as ever. It is telling that two out of the six books on this year's Booker shortlist deal with the love of the older woman for the boy. Monica Ali's Brick Lane gives the heroine a smooth-skinned, naive boy for her illicit affair; Zoë Heller's Notes on a Scandal deals with a 40-year-old teacher destroyed by her love of a 15-year-old. In popular films, from Titanic to Thelma and Louise , love is directed towards the figure of the boy rather than the man, in contradiction of the traditionally sanctioned direction." by Natasha Walter, author of The New Feminism (Virago).

R0bert