"Or you can end up a totally rooted fruit loop.."

LOL. Very droll, CJ.

And you're on the ball, as always, too Spikey.

<< You can be a piece of grass totally outside the ploughed field... a weed growing in it..looking like a Christian..or.. a stalk of wheat.. rooted and grounded in Christ Himself....producing fruit many fold. >>

I hate to be drawing attention to it for the third time, but what a little gem this is. Poly you've outdone yourself.

And to think I missed seeing it. Perhaps I should stop scrolling through your posts after all. There obviously is the odd speck of gold to be found in amongst the dross.

And Romany, I could probably comment on your post too - if I knew what it said!

I had promised myself that I would give myself a rest from Boaz' twisted history while here in Europe, but I can't let this one pass unremarked.

>>Ireland.. political more than religious...<<

Yesterday I passed this analysis by a Northern Irish (Protestant) friend for comment.

He simply said that anyone who could make this statement, believing it to be true, must never have been to Ireland, or spoken to a Northern Irishman.

He then went on (and on, and on - he is Irish after all) to tell a dozen stories about perfectly ordinary families, with no political agenda, who had been brought up to hate others purely on the grounds that they followed a different brand of Christianity.

His observation on the following Boazism?

>>if Catholics and Protestants can get along fine together outside the political mess.. (there were interfaith fellowships during that crisis) doesn't that tell you something?<<

"Ask him this. Why are 'interfaith fellowships' needed between people of the same faith?"

I won't comment on Boaz' earlier attempts to explain away the Crusades etc., but would add...

The sooner Boaz comes to accept that the fabric of Christianity contains significant faultlines, in exactly the same way as do other organized religions, the sooner he will learn the compassion that he so consistently and conspicuously lacks.

*waves at Pericles*... thought u'd fallen off a cliff or something!

Perilous.. try this to your Irish friend.

1/ "Would you say you have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus?"

2/ "Does that relationship (if he has one) lead him to hate people?"

3/ If he says yes.. than ask him to show you from the Bible (Gospels) on what such hate is based?

I AGREE.. "religion" causes the problems. Because people who form themselves into groups can be insular and antagonistic to non them..... UNLESS the values they live by... are based on love, compassion and justice.

I continue to say that the Irish trouble was based on partly history.. particularly that of your English mob oppressing the Irish.
From 'that'...and the Northern Irish/Loyalist stance of part of the country.. it follows naturlally that this historical injustice would be translated into human attitude and behavior.

That it is 'human' rather than Christian is verified by comparing such behavior with the Gospels and the Lord Himself.

It always comes back to that (Spikey.. r u paying attention here?)

HEY Spikey.. see you at the 'FREE GAZA' RALLY next sunday at the State Libray.. 2.00pm.. I'll be the bloke with the sign saying:

PEACE 4 GAZA
NO HAMAS ROCKETS.

or maybe

NO HAMAS ROCKETS=
NO ISRAELI BOMBS

I wonder how the 'Anti War' mob will cope with 'balance' :)

It's amazing how their view is blinkered. -It only sees Israeli wrongdoing.

If I achieve nothing else.. it will be to show the utter hypocrisy of that movement. (and maybe score a thumping from an over zealous protester:)

As always, Boaz, your response is to avoid the issue, and change the subject.

>>1/ "Would you say you have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus?"<<

The religion in this context is Christianity. The two subsets of Christianity that we are talking about are Catholicism and Protestantism. These two factions have been at each others throats in Northern Ireland for centuries.

Their quarrel is, and always has been, religious, and has outlasted any number of political changes.

Both sides claim God to be on their side. Both believe in Jesus. Both insist that the other lot are bound for hell. Both inculcate their children with a deep and abiding distrust in the other, based not on geography or history or politics, but on the beliefs that they hold.

As my friend said, if you believe that the hatred is anything other than religious, then you simply don't have a clue about the reality of the situation.

It is also worth pointing out that the six counties consistently exercised their democratic right to be ruled from Westminster. So much for "your English mob oppressing the Irish". What sane body would vote for a continuance of their own oppression?

Incidentally, I happen to know that my friend does not have "a personal relationship with Christ Jesus", having become bitterly opposed to the practice of Christianity in his neighbourhood over a twntyseven year period.

Christianity is not immune from the habit of people throughout the ages, to use religion as a weapon.

Accept it. Live with it. Learn from it.

Get off that high horse of yours, in which Christianity evades any blame for the atrocities committed in its name, and start to understand that such an attitude is bigoted, inflammatory and downright dangerous.

Pericles,

This continual attempt to embellish good parts of the Bible, leaving out the distasteful, shows a mindset far remove from reality and possibly not accessible to reason - Which we should all celebrate! (Small plug for AFA advert :))

The New Testament promotes - women as second class, that demons inhabit humans, that demons are the cause of sickness, that animals can be treated as objects, that by analogy it is OK to slay people, that hating everyone except the mythical Jesus is acceptable, that there is no such thing as the environment, democracy, medicine or science, that voluntary euthanasia is allowable if you are a half god, that homophobia is permissible, that it fine to scapegoat the Jews, that punishment for the wrongs of others is good although totally ethically unsound, that allegedly curing a few lepers and not alleviating the immensity of suffering in the world is compassionate, that compelling others to accept the mythical Jesus is preferred and telling fibs about the return of the mythical Jesus in the lifetime of those supposedly writing the NT has merit.

Inseparable from Christianity is the Old Testament. Suddenly, the irascible tyrant Yahweh transforms into the mythical ‘gentle’ Jesus in the blink of an eye. Followers forget they are one and the same ‘thing’.

The OT is full of so much irrationality, brutality, unfairness, injunctions to kill disbelievers; made up stories and other junk which adherents of Christianity can cherry pick the to their hearts content to believe whatever they wish. The many sects prove this beyond doubt.

Every one of these sects (All religions were sects as some stage) has the correct method of interpreting these ancient, none too enlightened words, and each would impose their version on society if the opportunity arises. Each wish to drag humanity back the days of superstitious rule and each has no conscience about doing just that.

Meanwhile, the average person who believes in a god has a rosy eyed view about all the before and in doing so, accommodates the fanatics in gaining political power by methods outlined previously.

David

Romany,
Eek! For a moment I thought I was having flash backs! from bui? :-)
Long Taim bepor mi got savy long dispela tok. Dispela taim mi got liklik savy long rit em tok tasall. Clearly I'm VERY rusty these days.

I am here to exchange views not to preach. I was concerned in the last exchange that I was painting myself into a didactic role i.e. become part of what I detest.
I genuinely believe that neither side has a mortgage on the truth.
I try to get people to consider the alternatives and to examine their assertions.

As to your ‘taim bepor’ bit like I said it is relative to how you judge ‘gutpela moa’ and for whom specifically. Were they happier (content at peace with their world order), simpler quite probably but heath, nutrition wise etc perhaps not. Over all compared to now I could argue that for many nugins ‘taim bepor gutpela moa'.
Either way I still maintain that white man/religious missionaries have a lot to answer for. In context I don’t see that atheism works any better for them.
AFA arguments logically appear wedded to the debateable judgemental opposite.