i will just use the general topic as a soap box..,freedom of speech is a missnomer,

we see daily pathetic accusations casting dispersions[like the athiest/polly thiest,quoting their own words back at them only,sees them rewrite it in other ways[or go silent]

poly will see the speck in others eyes,and the athiest..[thiest]..cant get that his'disbelief'is only another form of belief,..anything people hold religiously makes them blind to their own plank..[and i make no claim to be different]

today's issue for me boils down to the twelve tribes..[one of which was named israel..[i would make it its own topic but my track record stands at 1 out of 5..,which effectivly tells me not to bother

the thing is god made to rise..'one'dust..[from the waters of the deep]..no doudt poly would sat it was chistian..[or israel-ian..[and the athiest..[who cares;it was a evolution..[but he cant prove it..and evolutionist's cant either]

[god didnt make'names'of different countries/religions,[we did]and why we did is perhaps more relitive than what part we came from or what we chose to believe..[or deney]..jesus did come to heal OUR fathers divided house,..not create yet another'religion'

[see that all land is holy..[all people are gods people]..any belief can be'believed'..as well as disbelieved..,but not deneyed..[it is a free chosen'belief..[this i believe,thus my belief is not for your debate]

the 12 tribes that wandered in the desert..[of which israel was only one]..[do not the other 11 tribes deserve their own homeland too?..do not they too have the right to be heard..[or are they all dead?.[does god say'only.israel and you'others'arnt my people?

[how did the israel-ites become the priest'class'?]..and david chose no class[but he being its head]

god had one people,[made up of 12 tribes?..israel was one of them 12 right?..how come one claims the whole'holy.].[unholy ground?,..as well as the weopon of antisemitism..[the real root of this topic]

how come one war class has claimed the WHOLE holy land?

mate im lost in all this[im sure others are too..,how did 12 tribes come to unite under one trible name?..who control freedom of speech issue...[who are heard in every debate]

[yet drug users dont]

Polycarp
“3/ CHILD RAPE BY CLERGY. There are no 'factors' here..it's just plain wrong by any measure, specially the direct condemnation by Christ.”
The Catholic church clearly believes there are factors here. It commissioned a comprehensive, independent research study into this issue by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
http://www.usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/
The report revealed that 4% of priests were involved and 81% of offences were male on male, with 90% of those being on boys between the ages of 11 and 17. Their response has been to purge practitioners of diverse sexuality from their ranks.
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=39700
Islam also purges practitioners of diverse sexuality from its ranks albeit using more drastic means.
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.2506821385

Bronwyn,
I understand your view where we differ is in the analysis and attribution of the root cause of what is a real concern. I argue that a belief in a supernatural God is in the individual a personal right. Intrinsically it is as benign as fantasizing about seducing some movie star. (We all have/need our selective fantasies to survive.) The wrongness comes when we/I do something about the fantasy.
Therefore the issue that needs needs attention is the actions of individuals and groups in breaching the PERSONAL RIGHTS of others. Ergo their efforts to pervert public policy. There is a clear line.

Schools, governments et al should not be influenced or seek to influence either way. In a social science class context how personal ideas are often used to pervert public policy are valid as are discussions on AFA policies to do the same thing. The emphasis should be on the act/efforts of perversion is the problem not the belief them selves (human rights issue). Otherwise we are delving into social engineering and the pit falls of that entails.

AFA David,
My words have failed me I am not in the least defensive as that would imply that I'm taking the ”slings and arrows” personally...I am simply not.
I don’t see that a robust examination of my views is anything but that. I can take as good as I give and then some.
Please don’t confuse defensiveness with either desire not to alienate or my contempt for ad hominem attacks in lieu of a reasoned discourse.

Emotional truth/happiness is in the minds of the individual where it belongs.
Who know if I would have/could have been happier in pre missionary PNG is pointless unknowable speculation.
Your Quote is simply a questionable generalized assertion imposing his opinion/judgement on others. Consider a 16 YO who then became a Burma railway survivor and the effect it would have had on him… his drinking in part was to help him cope with the ever present demons of the past. The CONSEQUENCES of his drinking was the problem not his seeking relief.

Ploycarp:

"Hi there Spikey... I don't ignore any of those events. "

The burning of 'heretics'? The civil war in Northern Ireland? The most recent genocidal religious Balkans War

examinator,

I would appreciate your “robust” responses on a number of issues, as they have not been forthcoming.

You seem to be missing the point. The AFA has no policies on education, only that religious indoctrination should not be included in any curriculum. Classing the AFA stand on this as social engineering is mischievous nonsense.

The Papuan example was a question intended to elicit thought. I would choose neither of the alternatives, given a higher level of knowledge. I thought you would twig to this. I was wrong.

Bernard Shaw’s quote is the closest thing to an axiomatic statement one could get. It is unacceptable to induce delusional happiness…period! Mature adults choosing, with full understanding, well it’s their life, but it could still be dangerous to the rest of us.

The Burmese Railway analogy is good. The solution is to prevent the Burmese railway situation from happening, the same, as we must prevent the ideological indoctrination of children from happening. They are both wrong. And both can have adverse consequences.

There must be no public policy supporting such indoctrination. If that were so, private ideological indoctrination would be stigmatised, thus limiting its present widespread nature.

Currently, that is not the case and Australians, as a generalisation, consider indoctrination as either good, as it is not properly understood or at the very least, benign. This is why Chaplains have crept into the state schools system. This is why tax payer dollars from everyone benefits only religions in enormous amounts. The problem is not that religions are charitable with the money; it is that the money is not all used for charity and religions are not accountable.

I think you had better start spelling out in clear and concise words, what problems you have with either the AFA or me on these matters.

If your answer is that, you have explained it all before, because you certainly have not sufficiently for the sake of clarity, our interaction is finished.

David

davidian athiest>>we must prevent the ideological indoctrination of children from happening.>>

yes we must..especially when retards like you are trying to sepperate children from their parental beliefs,..who are you to forbid anything[just because you were molested dosnt mean all religion is bad

there are evil athiests wanting to teach children about godlesness...even to the point of banning them from learning it..[are you going to shut down catholic/jewish schools?

fair enough to keep[religion out of public schools..[but you retards allready done that]..but when you remove a parental right,freewill choice your going further than mere god hating,..how will you re-ducate the children,..put them on prozac..,beat them till they recant?

[you have an unhealthy obsession about children..[are you a front for child molesors?]..you cant prove evolution yet persist in pushing this deception as well..[the darwinian bias has root in many areas,..from genetic/exterminating to racism..[will you be banning that too?

<<They are both wrong...And both can have adverse consequences.>>both tie into your darwinian mind meld delusions

<<There must be no public policy supporting such indoctrination>>

that washes both ways..[that of all the issues you pick on religion reveals an unhealthy obsession,..revealing inherantly you are a huge danger[not only to yourself but to children..[your biggest most constant obsession..[your every second post obsesses on children..[get over it you pervert..grow up.]

your own words<<I think you had better start spelling out in clear and concise words,what problems you have with>>...with CHILDREN believing in a loving god,...why your obesssed with children,..and working your delusions into every post,..your obession is plain to see,..please explain why

if you have proof of no god please present it

while your at it prove evolution..and prove that religion has no redeeming features

of all the issues you could fret about..your picking on peoples faith IS NONE OF YOUR BUISNESS

if there is a crime expose the criminal..not lable all with the same biased delusional brush..you are a coward ,and obsesivly/delusional,

you fear shadows and fight what you call a non egsistant being,..you have fairies in your garden mate,..and still have not proven any of your theories to be based in fact