I've often wondered how easy or accurate it is to tell much about a person by looks.

Is a pretty girl also a nice person?
Is a handsome man likewise?

Do good looks tend to push people in particular attitude directions toward others?

Can we generalize or.. partly generalize? If say we had 10 people who had exceptional good looks..and 10 people of average looks.. is there anything we can say which would be more likely to characterize each group ?

Do you have any experience with this.. where your first impression has been proven correct or completely wrong?

Can we tell by the lines in the face... the eyes.. the mouth.. if a person is hiding a scurrelous background?

Would a former war criminal/SS officer "look" like they have killed a large number of people?

I'm interested in contributors thoughts.

Well, I grew up on a farm where there were various caretakers. One caretaker started to come up and play chess with dad and gave us kids (I was about grade 4) from this area lifts from the bus to our various places.

Dad liked him, I was, to be honest, indifferent, I wish I could say *I sensed it* Dads best friend did sense it though, and was so off this man, just really disliked him.

Dad found some bloody clothes in our creek, around the time a little boy refused a lift (Hector the cat says don't go with strangers) in a small town down the road. The police were called Anyyyyyyyyyyway turns out he was a serial killer, mainly killing little boys with rape and knifing, his wife knew all along... they had just had their own baby actully.

He is still in jail today and insisting he is innocent, One of mums friends was a counceller in that jail and said he seemed very normal but for a really dark sexual pic of a woman he had in his cell.

Recently he in a documentary (from jail still) and seemed so normal and nice, but he's not, my dad had the kids soaked blood drenched clothes.

So I'll go a "no" on that one Poly!

Oh Meredith, how absolutely devastating for your parents as well as the poor devils who were the parents of the young boy!

Friends of mine out behind Maroochydore let a nice young fella and his girlfriend rent a caravan on the property. They were discovered by a mutual friend tortured to death one afternoon in a manner so horrible it defies description.

And hey, on a personal note: I married a sociopathic, violent batterer who was blond-haired, blue-eyed, handsome and very pleasantly behaved. Wish there'd been a line around his eyes or something I could have seen to warn me: - all he would have seen of me would have been dust.

So I reckon I'd have to go a "no" too.

Romany,yes! It was haunting for our family and the area in general, but none of us were physically hurt... He was charged with 3 life terms, they only could get him on 3 murders but they think there were many more, which is yeh, just yucky... He is a serial killer.

I'm sorry to hear you had such a horrible time.. I hope your well now. DV is very nasty stuff, insidious and deeply damaging.

Keep safe!

Good looks did not become important until man rose above the need to be pre-occupied with survival and sought more subtle social,artistic and mathematical indulgences such as symmetry,that pandered to our egos.

Good looks might reflect good breeding,but nothing surpasses the ability of the individual to excel using their innate abilities

"You will know them by their fruits..." Matthew 7:16-20.

How they act and react.

Its a hard question to answer when it comes to an truly evil heart that wants to hide its intentions.

A person may open his or her mouth and give their hearts away, but that too may take time.

We might pick some by their dress, but we may also be quite wrong, so its not a good standard.

A christian friend watches people in church to see who their looking at and can actually pick those who are sexually inclined towards any women, girls or even children.

He's an elder of course and interested in who might disturb church life.

Id say generally its quite hard to pick bad folks by looks though I dont doubt God gives discernment to quite a few people as to strangers.

Thanx Folks.. interesting (and in some cases tragic) posts.. how easily we can be deceived..for sure.

It might not be 'good' looks in some cases..it can be 'kind' looks.

When I was a child, this 'nice kind' man paid the shortfall in my fish and chip order.... (I was in maybe grade 4) then offered me a lift back to school from the shops. Wellllll...after his kindness how could I refuse.. he drove me down to the river (at Warrandyte) and started to go kinda strange.. (quiet) and I sensed 'something isn't right here' and just asserted myself and said. "its ok..I'll walk back to school' and jumped out of the car.. (pheew).

How would a war criminal look? a Sadist?

If one of you had been tortured.. harmed.. brutally beaten repeatedly by a sadistic monster, a man who had all the feelings of a cold chunk of ice.. but who delighted in inflicting suffering on you for the sake of it... who just went on...and on...and on.... beating..punching.. hitting.. even though you were not even fighting back... on..and on..and on.. until one half of your upper body changed color from pale white to purple, scarring you for life on the inside... would you ever consider placing such an individuals image with that story on the internet?

Let's say the federal police indicated that such an event was not something that ranked with 'terrorism and sexual abuse' in their priority list, yet they had told you that what the person did was a serious crime.. and for which there is no statute of limitations.

How might one seek justice?

-Confront the person physically.. offer to 're-enact' the event now that your not only bigger and older, but perhaps much better trained in how to deal with physical assault?

-Sue them for emotional damage using witness statements from people who saw the event?

-Just shut up and sulk?

-Let 'life' take care of him?

-Simply 'forgive' them?

-If you have identified their present location and place of employement.. tell their boss and fellow colleagues about their past?

Comment deleted

Years ago I was friends with a very nice family in the church. (And as far as I know the rest of this family still are very nice people). Neither of the Parents had driver's licences, so when their 16 year old son was able to get his L plates, he saved up a bought a car. Many other adults in the church would give their time to supervise him so he could learn to drive and get his licence. I did once myself, and was invited to have a meal with this family. (His mother said nothing special, just a normal family meal, but the food was excellent). We all commented in the Church what a nice young boy he was.

That boy is now an adult and in Jail. He tried to murder his wife and even had the grave dug for her. So we can't always judge by appearance.

The photos of Bilaf Skaf in the paper the other day show a very friendly man, but I bet his victims didn't find him very friendly.

Polycarp, I think that studies were done in the 1800's to see if a criminal had any notable facial characteristics but this couldn't be proven.

Gibo, I'm not sure about your church elder. He needs to be very careful about accusations. He could be wrong. If he really does have a concern, he should speak directly to that person first prior to speaking about him to any member of the congregation. Discernment can often be confused with suspicion.

Most children who are molested are molested by someone they and their family know and trust. When I was a child we were taught to never go off with strangers, regardless of how nice they looked.

This is serious stuff, Boaz

>>This is on the profile of a man who inflicted exactly that suffering on myself many years ago<<

Are you seriously telling us that someone inflicted these injuries on you "many years ago", Boaz?

And that you have decided after all these years to ask your audience here what you should do about it?

A story so bizarre, it could almost be true.

Here's my advice.

Take absolutely no notice of any suggestions of revenge that you might receive on this thread, but take your story instead to a competent professional.

A psychiatrist, perhaps, if it is something you need to work through your system. Or the police.

Even - especially if someone here actually recognizes the description and decides to name and shame - a good lawyer.

But please. Unless this is a complete cod, do yourself a favour and get some help.

Gibo,

Giving some more thought to your Elder.

I sit at the front of the church, so I can't see who's behind me and I don't care. That way I'm more concerned with worship. If you sit at the front of church you will know what I'm talking about, if you don't you should try it. You will be blessed.

Your elder is probably noticing people at the back of the church.

Dear Steve,
For a person to be placed in a position of trust in a church he must first devolope character or the ones in authority are foolish. The bible tells you how to judge Godly not condemning and if the leadership do not follow the leadership of God they are fools looking for trouble and will soon find it.

When it comes to “looks” some things become clear

You can often see from how someone stands if they are depressed (stooping shoulders, the worries of the world etc…)

Personally when I look at people I try to look into their eyes.

It seems to me you can tell a lot from that…

If someone is home or out with the pixies.. .
People who avert from eye contact supposedly have something to hide or alternatively are just insecure.

One thing to remember, however, is psychopaths are adept at hiding within a shell of apparent niceness.

So nothing can ever be considered fool proof.

Appearances are deceptive, better to approach with caution and talk a lot to find out more first one good test is to offer some small but real information about yourself and see how much is reciprocated or what efforts are used to avoid genuine engagement.

Richie 10 - when I consider the child abuse cases which have been disclosed over the past couple of decades, I guess we can take it that most organised religions are completely stupid ?

My rule of thumb. The sum of the what the package looks & sounds like is indirectly portional to the brainlessness & personality.

I have a mate, who at first look would, "scare the s#!$ out of you." A kinder more generous, great father & loving guy you would never meet.

Another friend is drop dead, flawless & georgous. A greater scatterbrain, dips#!$ you would never meet.

Can you really tell. I don't think so.

Steel Mann.
Our elders do a good job. They are there to watch-to-protect. Ive been in churches where handbags have gone astray and the pedo always lurks wherever there are youngsters.

WE WATCH!

A watchman is a God-Ordained position... whether he watches for a church... or for a nation.

PS: Ive updated my blog Steel Mann at

http://whatwillbecomeofaustraliajackburrell.blogspot.com/

Soon I may have another again on the same subject entitled china invades australia/does china invade australia.

Pray for Australia.

Im off to rest.
So Merry Christmas to all.
Merry Christmas to all.

Interesting subject Polycarp

Does the way Michael Jackson dress say anything?

Psychologists have done all sorts of research on this and if I could remember what they call it I'd probably be able to give a few links.

People tend to trust good looking people more than ordinary or less attractive ones. The effect is different depending on whether the person being looked at is male or female. When photos are altered to make the pupils bigger, people trust both males and females more regardless of looks.

The idea that bad people can be identified through physical characteristics comes from phrenology, a long discredited idea. One of the reasons Jack the Ripper was never caught is that people were looking for someone who looked like a deranged criminal. Still, people like to think they can see goodness and badness, despite the fact that some of the worst criminals end up being pretty ordinary looking people. Crime wouldn't be so easy for them if things were otherwise.

Being able to meet someone else's gaze is no indicator either. Holding someone's gaze if you don't know them well is actually aggressive, regardless of culture. Thus the staring game. It's different if we know someone well, but finding yourself in the locked gaze of less familiar people is uncomfortable for anyone. The locked gaze is a device commonly used by sect leaders to gain power over others.

It's ok if you're Clint Eastwood or Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.

Pray for Australia? I didn't know praying was even a competitive sport.

dear Col,
If God is not the head then the body is not of God. Wisdom from the word of God. He Jesus has broad sholders and wares a lot of blame for mistakes of sinfull men.

Chainsmoker, This is true...the serial killer I talked about earlier was actually very very handsome in his own way... Kinda had the Roger Moore thing going on in looks and style, which people dig.. or did back then.

A friend who has a degree in psychology said tyrants and these rotten personalities are often highly charming in style and very attractive to other people....still that is not looks, but yeh.

DB,

I only just got back to this thread and so just discovered your previous post.

I seriously add my voice to that of the one other poster who thought that perhaps you might be in real trouble here. If indeed you had any thoughts of actually posing those questions for real-life advice, I also entreat you not to listen to anything any of us has to say in response to them.

You need professional guidance. The fact that you would consider throwing it out here proves that this is not something that's behind you.

If you're serious and this is a real-life situation then GET serious.The cops, a shrink... your family doctor could be a starting point.

Even though there are professionals here in certain fields, you need one-on-one disclosure and advice. Deal with this now - cyber-space is not the place to deal with reality.

Yes me too, If some one has attacked you and turned back years later, go to the cops, DB, or your legals.. also go somewhere for emotional support such as family, friend, GP or shrink.

I have seen wonderful strong people leading good lives just fall to bits being reminded of or put back around violent abusers from their past.

I know forgiveness is probably big for you being so Christian but put your self first here...

Keep safe man.

thanx to those who seem to have my well being at heart.

Yes.. it all really did happen and what I reported was only the tip of the iceberg.

As I reflect on this, I'm not sure what the goal of 'help' might be?(as suggested by some).

The reason this is still with me, is simple. It was never dealt with in terms of justice. Let me give an example.

Another person from his same intake, king hit me in front of his whole intake assembled at RAAF Laverton, then proceeded to drag me semi conscious to give me a 'royal flush'.

Traumatic ? u betcha..but do I feel any animosity towards that bloke today? no..I feel pity if anything. The reason I don't hate him, is because at the moment he was pushing my head in..I finally snapped (this is some time after the previous incident) and took to him with fist and fury and left him with 2 black eyes he sported for a week.
"justice".

That never happened with the other bloke. We had been terrorized to such an extent that to respond physically was virtually unthinkable.. we were told that if we did, a mob of 'them' would hospitalize us for months. "Terror" stopped me from fighting back......

Because it still exists unresolved in my own mind and heart as an issue of justice, there are a number of possible actions.

The one I did not mention in the previous list was the criminal.
What he did was a crime (federal) and there is no statute of limitations on that.
If I sought legal redress...that would also punish his family who have done nothing to me. His children..wife.. parents....all would suffer.
So.. we have the dilemna of "punish the many for the sins of the one" or.. "Punish the one for his own sins"...legally.

Romany and Meredith..thanx for sharing, those experiences must have been awful.

Dear Polycarp,

I just had to pop in one last time before
disappearing for the holidays to wish everyone,
including you and yours, all the Joys of this
Very Special Season, and a Safe, Happy, and
Good, New Year 2009.

We haven't always agreed in the past, but I
know that you've got a big heart and mean well.
I look forward to doing lots more sharing of
cyber space with you in the New Year.

Polly, take care - Your experiences (and Meredith's
and Romany's sound dreadful).
I can't even begin to imagine
what you must have gone through.

Of course, none of us can tell much by how a person
looks.

Yet, we're all to a certain extent influenced by
a person's appearance.

Judges and juries can be swayed by more than just a
pretty face: the clothing defendants wear and the
jewelry they display can sometimes mean the
difference between doing time and dodging jail.

Defendants are advised what to wear to court.

The same goes for job interviews - and other situations,
where appearances are of the utmost importance.

The tailored suit, the crisp shirt, or soft blouse, the
subdued tie for men, all say, "dressed for success."

A business suit suggests that the person is not a
rich layabout or a welfare cheat, but someone who
works for a living. The corporate uniform is a token of
belonging to a company, and to the middle-class community.

"What evil lurks in the hearts of men?"
Who really knows?
Appearances are misleading - but we
are influenced by them - whether we realize it or not.

None of this was to bad for me at all, I was just a kid and didn't see the ugliness like the bloodied clothes in the creek etc.

Can we tell much by looks?

This question could just as easily be:

Can we tell much by race?

Not a lot. People can be plain but charming. Attractive with all the personality of a lump of clay. And every other combination in between.

Have I been taken in by good looks - absolutely, when much much younger I thought that as I was attractive so should be my partners. Like I said, I was young, and also destined to learn the hard way.

Now I look past appearance to the real person. I have become very astute at detecting the superficial, the puerile, the bully, the mean and petty. As a result I have no time for such people any more - life is too short.

Therefore, Poly/Boaz my answer is no, we cannot judge by appearance alone.

Poly,

There are several factors to looks, wherein in-kind there several perceptions. I recall this one from an old Psych book;

The way a man percieves a woman, the way a man pereieves a woman,the way a woman percieves a man,the way a woman percieves a woman, the way a person perceives his/her self, and the way way the camera images the person.

Thus, what is "much" is perceived differently.

I guess, I would infer good health (sometimes incorrectly) to go hand-in-hand with good looks, but not personality or intelligence. With some pronounced physical defects, I may initially be concerned the person could face a mental challange, but make no pre-judgements on personality or worth

Thanx Foxy for those kind words...and a joyful happy Christmas to you, Meredith, Fraccy, Pericles and all... also. ( can't mention all names.. but ur all in the mind)

Oly..and Fractelle.. I think we can probably tell more about what kind of mood a person is in by 'looks' (facial expressions) but not so much the inner character.

At times the 'facade' gives way to the darker side coming through and this is what we see in predatious animals when they have their sights set on their prey.

Another aspect to 'looks' seems from my observation to be that we tend to have 'types' that we gravitate to more than others.
Some blokes find some girls exceedingly attractive whereas others find the same girls not so. (Same with girls re blokes)

I tend to think that it's more behavior which tells the inner story. This is why I feel it is important to see how people act in different contexts.. social..work.. stress etc.

Poly/Boaz

Its not so much what you say, even less how you look, but what you do that counts.

A good thought to take into the new year.

"”An idea that is developed and put into action is more important than an idea that exists only as an idea.” - Buddha

The best of the season to all.

Yep, I second that...

You have a good Chrissy, Boaz!

It's a hard question isn't it, if or not to charge that guy. You worry about hurting his family, you maybe saving them, you don't know.

I'd tend to lean toward laying charges, or if not criminal charges, doing something to remedy it somehow... not just solely cuz I am paranoid he might be beating up his family... more so cuz he DID beat up you and that's very wrong of him.

Anyway... it's good you got it off your chest, even just here...

Hope Santa brings you lots of yummers :)

Thanx Merri and Fractelle...

warm regards to you both and all..