Hi, RObert and others,
I have to admit I didn’t read through all the posts thoroughly but read most, because I lacked the time to do so. Just thought I'd finally post here before I have to go.

I have been thinking a little about this discussion though, because it is an interesting one and very valid in this day and age of so many divorces. I don’t really have much to add, just a thought I had:

Perhaps the answer is not tightening of access to divorce but perhaps people need to be pre-marriage educated seriously- so make it a little bit harder to get married in the first place.

People sometimes get married out of the blue, without much thought, not only because they love each other, to please parents or grandparents, find marriage romantic, get married for financial reasons or even perhaps to gain status, oh and yes to start a family.

If there was some compulsory pre-marriage course couples had to attend in where all main responsibilities were set out clearly also regarding to future children, people might think about getting married a bit more seriously before they say “I do”.

The proposal question should not be: Wanna get married? But rather: wanna do the pre-marital course with me?

Perhaps it could include a lesson on the problem RObert addresses and the discussion of how intensive parenting plan works. It could also include pre-marital counselling.

I know of a 19 year old girl who got married because “It is all so romantic”. She knew her boyfriend for just six months. Really- people should be made to think about marriage, both men and women.

I know pre-marital education will probably take the romance out of it a bit, but it will also take away the idealistic veil and approaches marriages in a down-to-earth way.

It is no answer for existing marriages, but with raising divorce rates perhaps not such a terrible idea. It can save future children from having to go through the turmoil of a divorce.

Celivia, good points. I'd like to see a lot more ability for people to determine up front what they are getting themselves into. Most of the following has little to do with the original topic other than a belief that what we are doing now contributes to the harm to children.

The ability of human beings to conceive children regardless of any formal process does complicate matters somewhat so there are parts of this that quality pre marriage counselling can't touch but that does not negate the advantages of fixing what we can.

I'd like to see the commencement of any relationship with legal consequences be a formal step. I think that for many marriage is becoming something of a joke, the divorce rate has made a mokery of the idea of a union for life. Defacto relationships seem to have become a minefield in their own right. People drift into a legal relationship with far reaching consequences with no formal step, with rules which are open to interpretation and distortion. At some point after you have been seeing each other for some time you may be liable to loss of property and other consequences if it falls apart. How many nights a week does somebody stay over, how much do you have your finances mixed, etc before you are a defacto couple rather than just boyfriend and girlfriend (or BB/GG for the gays)?

Maybe have that counselling part of a formal stage of making a relationship legally significant. It may not be very romantic but then breakups are not real romantic either.

R0bert

I am going to slide to the left here on the discussions to give an opinion on other ways to help the system in the future.
We are a country of high single parenting. The benefits are $4000 in 2006 and $5000 in 2007. This is not a helpful gesture to have a baby.

Our future adults are from mixed relationships and there is not enough counselling and help for them to make choices in areas due to sociological and psychological environment.
I suggest that we start young. We teach about sex, looking after an egg, STD's and career advice but do we teach about creating values in your life, financial advice and independence, relationships and what are the major reasons for breakups, single parenting and the down side not just the ups. Confidence building workshops for the young, The future advice that might go in one ear and out the other but will hit them one day hopefully. Most of us were not advised what to do in a relationship we just looked to our peers and family and that is not always the best place to look. We can involve more then our present in finding solutions, this is a long term issue and we need to start realising that a lot of our problems come from not having enough information or choices when young. This is not a final solution but there needs to be more than waiting for the lightbulb to break before you buy another one to fix it. Knowledge is a step in the freedom of choice

alphafemale, good points. I especially like the idea of better informing people of the less visible side of single parenting.
Some of the guys I've talked to in mens groups would like to see education about the child support formula given to young guys.

Which benefit were you refering to in the figure you mentioned? I've been paying more than that in so called child support and the government has been handing out even more. I saw a while ago that one of the banks had calculated that it cost around $6,100 per year to raise a pre adolescent boy, I guess that assumes no private school fees, limited out of hours care and no other major unusual expenses.

R0bert