Now we DEFINITELY need more Christians like this bloke. From Compass on ABC1 last night:

http://abc.com.au/tv/guide/netw/200811/programs/RN0711H040D16112008T220500.htm

Chris Toohey, the Bishop of Wilcannia-Forbes, a western New South Wales Catholic diocese the size of France, is responding to a Papal call for an "ecological conversion" of the world's Catholics, he founded Catholic Earthcare which promotes the understanding that Creation is sacred and endangered, and must be protected.

He counters the view that some Christians hold; that climate change and other looming environmental issues are signs of the second coming and that humanity shouldn’t be doing anything about it, but should welcome it and just bring it on!

Here’s another Christian of the right sort; Reverend Richard Cizik.

http://abc.com.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2008/2419447.htm

Polycarp; http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8121#127612

The unfortunate thing is, Ludwig, that you can't just get them delivered to order from Amazon.

>>Now we DEFINITELY need more Christians like this bloke<<

If we were able to select the kind of Christian that we need, it would be the caring, honest, tolerant sort - ok, maybe with a touch of eco-awareness thrown in if you insist.

I know quite a few of these. One such is a chap - probably well into his eighties - who until recently collected for the Salvos every Friday at the railway station I use. We always had a chat, and he impressed me mightily with his ability to see the absolute best in anyone, and to be almost superhumanly non-judgemental.

Not entirely sure about his eco-cred, though, we never actually touched upon the topic.

The ones we could do without of course are the bible-bashing, vengeful, hate-ridden one-eyed sort, who believe, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that they are leading Christian lives.

I know quite a few of these too.

I am not entirely sure how to categorize those who spout bland platitudes, though. Thanks Boaz for reminding us of that particular breed.

>>WAIT ARJAY ..... I just found some very very cool quotes from a great preacher that are awesome<<

I suspect these guys might have a slot all on their own, marked "do not approach at social functions".

I've met a few of them too. They always remind me of Douglas Adams' description of the audience reaction to the second-worst poetry in the universe...

"During a recitation by their poetmaster Grunthos the Flatulent of his poem "Ode to a Small Lump of Green Putty I Found in My Armpit One Midsummer Morning", four of his audience died of internal haemorrhaging and the President of the Mid-Galactic Arts Nobbling Council only survived by gnawing one of his own legs off"

Polycarp,

I'm probably going to open a thread on that matter..

"Human Rights are impossible without Religion"

Don't bother, old son. We're all getting enough as it is.

Now if the topic were: "Without religion there would be no right wing in politics" you might be on to something interesting.

Pericles; “If we were able to select the kind of Christian that we need, it would be the caring, honest, tolerant sort - ok, maybe with a touch of eco-awareness thrown in if you insist.”

Wow. Do you really think that a bit of ‘eco-awareness’ is entirely optional?

It is essential! All the caring, honesty and tolerance in the world are not going to count for much if those sorts of people just sit back and let our massive rate of ecological destruction…and destruction of our own future….continue unchallenged.

Chris Toohey, Richard Cizik and a very small number of others are not just talking about environmental protection for the sake of a few threatened species, they’re talking about the sustainability of humanity, in balance with a healthy environment.

Polycarp supports the whole sustainability ethic. But apart from him, there has been just about no religious person on this forum that has come for or against it. No one, not even Polycarp, seems interested in it.

For goodness sake the most important thing of all; getting the human race to live within its means instead of being so blatantly out of whack with the rest of the biosphere…and doing it with the utmost urgency…is just a big snore for the Christians on OLO and 99.999% of them across the world!!

Foxy,

The study that Meisler refers to, draws a correlation despite:

Vietnam being in the No. 2 position
South Korea at No. 9
And Estonia at No. 10.

A positive correlation between atheism and global measures of health etc, can only be made, if Vietnam (no statistical collaboration with the assertion) and South Korea (as per Philo’s post, the dwindling number of atheists, a corresponding growth in evangelical christianity), and Estonia, with a population of 2 million, (statistically irrelevant), were excluded from the study.

Further, the “study” ignores the top 10 countries with the highest proportion of atheists. This would be a different list:

East Germany 88.20%
Slovenia 29.80
Russia 27.30
Israel 25.60
Netherlands 24.10
Hungary 23.30
Norway 14.90
Britain 14.00
West Germany 12.10
New Zealand 11.50

How would this study define countries square countries such as Ireland and Iceland (80.7% being members of the National Church of Iceland) with it's "correlation"?

A random sampling of global Indices of measurement:

In Order: A__B__C__D__E__F__G
Sweden__5__11__1__13__6__27__18
Vietnam__61__168__121__105__105__135__60
Denmark __9__15__1__145__14__11__28
Norway __3__3__14__2__2__34__23
Japan__17__29__18__8__8__17__2
Czech Republic__34__16__45__32__32__37__40
Finland__12__5__5__11__11__16__33
France__25__35__23__10__1__48__16
South Korea__30__50__40__26__26__41__14
Estonia__68__4__27__44__44__12__88

Australia__6__28__9__3__3__4__15
Iceland:__7__1__7__1__1__14__92__20
Ireland:__31__6__16__6__5__3__31__22

Where:

A. Worldwide quality of life index (Ranking out of 111 countries)

B. Worldwide Press Freedom Index (168 countries)

C. Corruption Perceptions Index (177 countries)

D. Global Peace Index

E. Human Development Index (177 countries)

F. Index of Economic Freedom (157 countries)

G. GDP (IMF, 2007)

H. Global Competiveness Report (125 countries)

Where are the other indices which measure health in a population, particularly mental health?

For example, Teen suicide Rates per 100,000

Estonia 13.2
Norway 10.9
Finland 9.5
Av: 7.0
Japan: 6.4
France 5
Denmark 4.9
Sweden 4.3

(all above average, Estonia being the highest. Source: WHO)

The facts simply do not support the conclusions.

Polycarp wrote:

"The point I was seeking to make re Mosley.. was that his behavior is neither moral nor immoral from the atheist world view, aside from the standard the individual atheist chooses to recognize.

From a Christian viewpoint..Mosley's behavior is very much against what God has laid down.. and is mentioned many times in the Old and New Testament as being totally unnacceptable to the Almighty.

Dear Polycarp,

The above is more of your nonsense. You don’t know what God wants anymore than I know what God wants.

There are many atheist worldviews as there are many religious worldviews. Different Christians have different views of right and wrong. Different atheists have different views of right and wrong.

Your equation of Christianity and God is obnoxious, as people besides Christians believe in God. Muslims believe in God and not the God of the Bible. They have as much right to claim knowledge of what God wants as you do. Actually I don’t have the arrogance to claim what God wants.

Bishop Spong is a member of the Christian Anglican Church. He has a very different view from you about what is right and wrong.

There are atheists who worry about sexual behaviour and would condemn Mosley as much as you do. There is not one atheist worldview. There are Christians who are not particularly worried about sexual behaviour but think other matters are more important.

However, I am not one of the atheists who condemn Max Mosley. As long as the participants in a sexual orgy are consenting adults I really don’t care what they do. That is not my business. I condemn Mosley’s father, as he was a racist. I think Mosley’s orgies are nothing to get excited about.

Air crews bombing a civilian section of a city, greedy guts making money from other people’s suffering, using land mines, depleted uranium or cluster bombs in warfare, logging destroying the habitat of an endangered species and unkind acts are some of the many things I consider immoral.

It is arrogant nonsense for you to claim you know what God wants.