Hi Pelican.
I guess the issue is more about when men turn their backs on God...eh?

a priest who molests a child.. is turning his back on known revelation of God's will and is thus without excuse.

A man who attends a sex orgy and gets himself whipped into a blood dripping ghoul.. might do so in ignorance.. or.. if he had knowledge of God.. by turning his back.

The bottom line is.. the human heart in all cases is the problem.

The difficulty for Atheists, is that perennial problem of not having a reference point outside their moral system which gives it any validity.
So..you get 2 atheists and you have 2 potentially competing ideologies about life.

This problem is particularly evident in the quest for a basis of human rights.

I'm probably going to open a thread on that matter..

"Human Rights are impossible without Religion"

For an advance peek... I recommend this.
http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/video/RELIGION/MONTGOMERY/RIGHTS/rights.html

Montgomery is the man who takes on cases of human rights in Strassbourg...he beats "countries" on such issues not individuals.

One example he gave is of some Pentecostal Greeks who were dismissed from the armed forces and arrested under 'anti proselyting' laws.

Greece was taken to the EU human rights commission (being a signatory) and got it's butt kicked by Montgomery :) now..people can evangelize in Greece!

what is the measure of a sociaty?
art dance architecture ,literature ,the sciences ?

how many fine buildings [and architecture]
were built in the name of believers in god

how many texts ,how many poems, songs dedicated to god?

how many human rights documents begin with mention to god?
how many parlement meetings begin with prayer to god?
what is belief is the justice system built on ?
what text do most SWEAR upon?

so the list for xtian gets extensive
add in the other belief 's inspired by god

#[or to works of the supa-natural agencies ,nature]

how much art science math ,etc dit athism or athiests inspire? [construct ,compose or build [in honour ; or in memoram of]

the question is mute
its no contest if we are talking about things of the flesh
#[or of the spirit]

recorded athiest achievments
are virtually zero
[in our past his-story]

BUT THE QUESTION SHOULD have READ

has society 'devil-eloped' more by believers
in the higher power[or non god believers ,?

labeled in their dis 'belief' as a-thiest ,
yet only united in their non recognition of the god giving them their reality

given each of us to know better our god
[according as we earned]

yet gifted to all
of the love ,light ,logic and logus
of the highest [living] one][god]

Society needs Atheists, secularists and religious.
Secularists don’t believe in god(s) but acknowledge the rights of those who do.
We need mutual respect not the excesses of evangelists from either extreme.

Particularly religious people who impugning others’ beliefs through implication by their ill-considered dogma and lack of respect.
Like ‘you can't have human rights without Christianity'. :-O
It wasn't true before and it still isn’t now. No matter how many times that nonsense is repeated. History dictates that we have human rights DESPITE the APPLICATION of Christianity.
Archaeology shows that the golden rule "Do unto other as you would have done to you etc" (the basis of Christianity) predates it (the Bible) by at least two thousand years.

One could note that according to the Bible God loves ALL people. "Love thy enemy" and certainly not the toxic version of the golden rule 'do unto the Muslims before they do unto you'. Apart from God saying “judge not lest you be judged” and "Vengeance is mine”.
I challenge them to explain the inconsistency in their views about non believers i.e. native in PNG etc having grace (according to the bible). Yet zealots for their own selfish arrogance feel the need to take away that with their confused version of Christianity. I’d like them to explain how these heathens are better off with the destruction of belief systems that have sustained them at least 20 times longer than as Christianity an 12 time as long as Judaism. Where’re the human rights/respect in that?
What if their version of Christianity is wrong? Where in the Bible does it say that their interpretation is the right or only one?
Neither do they stick to the letter or spirit or the Bible picking and choosing and taking verses out of context.
I support their right to believe in God but not at the cost of tolerating ad nauseum their continual casting insulting aspersions on mine or others rights to our beliefs/values. I am not a Christian but I'll be damned if I'll accept implications denying my belief in human rights. Enough is enough >:-|

"There is really no evidence that atheists behave better or worse than Christians. There are monsters who are Christians, and monsters who are atheists."
Too true, David. The atheists, however, have an easier time avoiding being ridiculous.
Has there ever been a war fought for the 'glory of being secular'?
Can there be anything more ridiculous than 2 combatants -nations or individuals- both praying to the same God for victory; particularly when the God they are praying to commands them to 'love their enemies'?

Grim wrote:

"Can there be anything more ridiculous than 2 combatants -nations or individuals- both praying to the same God for victory; particularly when the God they are praying to commands them to 'love their enemies'?"

Dear Grim,

To the best of my knowledge it is only the humanoid god of Christianity that commands his followers to 'love their enemies'. The other gods that humans have created are more realistic.

Neither Muslims nor Jews have a humanoid god. Christians invented god in man. This made the religion acceptable to the classical world. The pagan pantheon of humanoid gods was reduced to one humanoid god. Christians, Jews and Muslims do not believe in the classical pantheon of gods. Not believing in Jupiter or Zeus makes them atheists. However, their atheism does not in general make them tolerant of the atheists who do not accept their invention.

"Not believing in Jupiter or Zeus makes them atheists." (?)
Jews, Christians and Muslims are atheists?
With the greatest respect, a 'theist' is someone who believes in a God or Gods. Not believing in a pantheon of Gods makes them monotheistic, certainly not atheistic.
I was of course alluding to the number of wars that have been fought between 'Christian' countries; England versus Germany, France v. England, Spain v France and England, Italy v England France...
Getting back to the original question, Perhaps the world could use more christians -if we could only find some. As George B Shaw put it (roughly): "Yes I think Christianity is a great idea. I just hope someone tries it one day".