As you are well aware, Boaz, I wasn't referring to Paul as an individual, so your character reference is irrelevant.

>>PAUL... nope.. he is nothing like Russell or Smith<<

I was, of course, referring to your observation on "cults which deliberately interpret information in line with the views of the people who started them."

Paul was the architect, I understand, of what we know as Christianity.

After all, Jesus himself had no intention to start a church, he was much more inclined to encourage folk to be nice to each other. He probably realized that if his followers formed into factions, they would spend the rest of their days fighting each other.

But it remains that you are in fact following a unique interpretation of what Christianity actually is, based on the writings of one man.

I was merely pointing out that your version of Christianity is simply the product of Paul's imagination, just Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are the construct of their founders.

I have no problem with that. Chacun à son gôut and so on. But the point I was trying to make is that your version is just one of many products of human endeavour, as is Islam.

My concern is that you gather together all these dubious and nebulous concepts to build up a picture of "the evil that will engulf us all", which you then trumpet from your soapbox.

Half-truths, Boaz, and wild extrapolations of the motives of those whom you target, are the principal tools of the soapbox rabble-rouser everywhere.

Have a hate-free day.

I've just returned from a ten day trip to
Sydney (my old stomping ground) and my
goodness what a culture shock.

It's not the city I remember at all.
In fact, parts of it are quite dreadful.
Over built, narrow streets, heavy traffic
conjestion. Where's the town planning?
How can people live like this?

Sydney to me typifies a city that has grown
so quickly - in a relatively short space of
time. It now has such a diverse population.
And as a result the problems (and the rewards)
that go with this cultural diversity.

Islam is a good example of one of the problems.
Where fear and mistrust exists towards something
that is perceived to be different from the
mainstream in our society. With time hopefully
this will change. And we will adjust, to what
unites us, rather than divides us. As we have done
in the past with other cultural groups.

For now however, voices of reason, like Irfan Yusuf's,
should be encouraged. We need these voices of reason,
to counter-balance the extremist hysteria probagated
in the media.

Firstly mac,
There are a number of Quran translations to English and if you care to trawl through the articles and posts by Irfan Yusuf, on OLO, I believe you may find him validating at least one version, as I recall.

So one does not have to be able to understand Arabic to read the Quran. The same applies to the Bible as it also has been translated. Mind you I do not read either and stay out of religious debate.

Pale,
I thought you would have better understanding of our laws than to simply say "So whats happening to this type of Muslim? I say lets put him on a plane "NOW' and say Toodle Pip"

Whats happening to this type of "person" now is that if the person assaulted wants to go ahead with charges, the offender will face our courts in the normal manner. We cannot simply deport a person because he allegedly punched a woman in the stomach.
This applies no matter what nationality, religion, culture or anything else.

A citizen cannot be deported. Only non-citizens can be deported and then only if there are clear grounds to do so, such as conviction of a crime where there is jail for 2 years or more. Even then the person can appeal the deportation.

I recall a case of the courts allowing a convicted drug dealer to stay because he had fathered a child while here and to deport him may make it difficult for the child.

What needs to be done is that we must ensure that all prospective immigrants are made aware of our laws and culture/society, BEFORE they commit to come here. If we desire a harmonious society, our immigration has to be discriminatory. We should deny those cultures that have shown they cannot/will not abide by our laws and social standards.

Added to this tough penalties and enforcement for those that will not integrate. Examples here that come to mind are those that carry on old hatreds, those that continue holding cockfights and those that continue subjecting girls to FGM.

Pale,
I should have added that I am not surprized that your female paramedic was assaulted by a Muslim. There have been many complaints of verbal abuse by Muslim males to females who work in jobs where there is frequent contact with Muslims. Jobs such as police, ambos, teachers, shop assistants, nurses, receptionists, etc.

My inquiries lead me to believe that the main problem we have here is with Lebanese Muslims. I am not sure if this is simply because there are more Lebanese muslims than other nationalities of Muslims. I note that in England and Europe there seem to be problems with Muslims of various nationalities.

There seems to be a very strong male dominance part of some cultures.

Violence is simply unacceptable, Muslims, Christians, Aussies, Poms or anyone else.

Banjo
Courts costs have trippled with cases involving people from other countries.

We can and should deport them if they punch someone because of their religion Banjo.

It’s sad really and I agree with you about many Leb Muslims.

The problem is Banjo its almost too late IMO.

Years ago the Government should have provided services to assist them to assimilate.
Try being a young leb kid just arrived in Australia. Dad says son you can’t go out drinking and chasing girls with the rest of the blokes because it’s wrong. You must say home.

Dad says look son at all these Aussie kids drunk and on drugs. I refuse to have my son and family member carrying on like that and bringing shame to our home.

Now I can understand that and I am sure you can too. All parents want what they think is best for their kids.
I actually think the Government should encourage the parents to let their kids live a little of the Aussies way of life just to have the experience to cope in a new country and make friends.

They young Muslim boy of course desperately wants to fit it.
Same as the girls wanting to attend the party the school dance etc.

Mostly they don’t attend the parties or go out playing football with the other young blokes and meet for a beer after.
Mostly they stay home or miss with other boys and girls of the same faith.
Unlike Aussie kids they tend to listen to their parents.

These kids usually feel they don’t fit into either the Aussie way of life or the Muslim way.
This leads to some very angry confused young men and women.

Education of the parents to encourage them to allow their kids to mix in should be 'strongly encouraged ''before' they arrive and that’s the Australian government’s responsibility.

I honestly feel to bring them here without some guidance and just dump them is 'almost cruel' in the end.

Pale,
It may be too late in England and some European countries to achieve some decent social harmony, but i do not think it is too late in Aus. We need to act fairly quickly though. It is madness to continue to allow people to come here with cultures that have shown they cannot/will not accept our social norms. It has been partly our own fault in that we have not taken the trouble to ensure prospective immigrants were fully aware of our culture, laws and how we live. This has to be done before the people commit to come here.

It is our country and we, through our elected representatives, make the rules and those coming here have an obligation to fit in, if they wish to stay. For too long we have said, "Oh, we are multicultural and you can carry on same as you always have done in your old country". "We will compromise our ways to suit you"

Thankfully, I believe that era is fast coming to an end.

From what i have seen, Muslim parents tend to keep a tight rein and close supervision on the girls but allow the young males much freedom. They can have cars, socialize in groups unsupervised and be with girls.

But having said that, I think it is hard for them to walk between two different cultures.