The Malaysian blogger, Raja Petra Kamarudin, has been detained for two years on the charge of “insulting Islam”. His crime? Promising to be a "good, non-hypocritical Muslim." In a rather strange statement he blames the severe problems facing Malaysia on Muslims and denounces them for not being true Muslims.

The fact is that Malaysia, once a cross of moderate Islam and passive multiculturalism, is turning into a racist-religist state that is openly persecuting non-Muslims. There are clear signs that the social contract between the native Malays and minorities groups is falling apart. Citizens of Indian and Chinese descent, in particular, are blamed for any and all problems. Once again, we see hardline Islamic doctrine taking control of a country in the name of a religion that openly denigrates others. Same parts of Malaysia are adopting sharia law. They already have reeducation camps for apostates and now we see malay-muslim majority moving to embrace the same two-fold policy that is tipical of radical Islam (and rarely opposed by moderates): These are: 1. Blame others for all problems, and 2. Proclaim the answer is more pure Islam (whatever that is).

Unfortunately, Malaysia is moving in that direction and a possible ethnic cleasing is not impossible.

Here is an article on this from the always excellent Harry's Place:
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/09/23/defend-raja-petra-kamarudin/

Questions: Will India and China step in to protect their minorities? Will boatloads of new refugees be sailing south? Will Indonesia go the same way? How will a hostile Islamic country on strategic waterways affect this part of the world? What will Singapore do? How will Australia handle one or two radical Islamic states as close neighbors? Will Australia stand up for human rights? Will Australia learn that multiculturalism is divisive and a recipe for disaster

HI Kactuz
trying to understand Malaysian politics sometimes requires the skills of a houdini :)

I looked at the organizations which called for his detention.. the only thing you need to know here is:

"Are they religious arms of UMNO" or.. "PAS" it is highly unlikely that they are PAS because kamarudin is clearly an Anwar supporter and Anwar's background is PAS.

Thus, I conclude that this is what might be termed 'UMNO in damage control' and in typical fashion they use the 'religious' card to win the hand.

They seem to be trying to appeal to the "moderate" or aka "UMNO" supporting Muslims and trying to marginalize the PAS element in a way which makes it difficult for them to criticize.. after all PAS is 'radical' in it's Islam so.. simple solution-claim Kamarudin is "insulting Islam".

But this can be better understood as people with the political power and economic privilege defending territory :)
That's my take on it anyway.

To much of this... all Australia can do is build her defences.

The whole of the region is beginning to crumble with the arms build-up and the Islamic stirrings.

In fact the whole of world peace is begining to crumble.

Australia needs national service, guns for a citizens army, a decentralisation of the population for a citizens army...food, fuel, medical storage away from its cities.

Theres no turning back now...to a world that once was quieter.

The Holy Bible endtimes are almost commenced.

Read Matthew chapter 24, Luke chapter 21 and John's Revelation.
...and if this rattles you, you need Jesus in your life.
No one's going to get peace without Him in their lives.

Gibo
This was sent to my office. I thought it may interest you=

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In it's fullest form, it is a
complete, total, 100% system of life.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components.

The religious component is a beard for all of the other
components.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to
agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to
Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. Here's how it works.

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in
any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a
peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is
the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%

Australia -- Muslim 1.5%

Canada -- Muslim 1.9%

China -- Muslim 1.8%

Italy -- Muslim 1.5%

Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%

Germany -- Muslim 3.7%

United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%

Spain -- Muslim 4%

Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket
chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for
failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%

Philippines -- Muslim 5%

Sweden -- Muslim 5%

Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%

The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%

Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the rulin

Contiuned

government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The
ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire
world.

When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings.

Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and
threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim
sections, in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%

India -- Muslim 13.4%

Israel -- Muslim 16%

Kenya -- Muslim 10%

Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and
ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%

Chad -- Muslim 53.1%

Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing
(genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on
infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%

Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%

Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%

Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic
cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%

Egypt -- Muslim 90%

Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%

Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%

Iran -- Muslim 98%

Iraq -- Muslim 97%

Jordan -- Muslim 92%

Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%

Pakistan -- Muslim 97%

Palestine -- Muslim 99%

Syria -- Muslim 90%

Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%

Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%

United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

Continued

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as
in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%

Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%

Somalia -- Muslim 100%

Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust
by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against
my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my
cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the
world, and all of us against the infidel.

-- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100%
Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live
in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they
live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos.

There are no national courts nor schools nor non-Muslim religious facilities.
In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.

The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even
associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore,
in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more
power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their
birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddists, and
Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The
Historical Roots and Contemporary Threa

Kactuz,Pale ,

Food for thought and maybe food for action ?

Enabling moderate Muslims to live in peace all over the world will be a difficult task .

The surety of "going to heaven" for killing one's neighbour if they appear to have transgressed some ancient edict is the surety that MUST be removed from all religions .

Doubt must be put into all religious fundamentalists minds on their heavenly future should they continue to believe that death of the opposition is the best way .

Our Christian Lord said "thou shalt NOT kill" and what are we busy doing, in particular one born again powerfull Christian - just that .

It is no wonder that many young people do not trust the religions of their brain washed Elders all over the world.

What if we did nothing to improve national defence...and China or Indonesia took advantage of a sudden change in the military climate?

Both China and Indonesia are building bigger and more modern armies and Australia, more or less, fiddles with her defences.

"Thou shalt not kill" is a solid commandment but does it mean we are to be weakling simps and NOT protect our women and children from being raped and murdered, to NOT protect our wonderful land from an enemy establishing genocidal re-education camps on Australian soil?
NO!
I look at the Book of Nehemiah and him getting Gods Help to rebuild the walls of the city against Jerusalems enemies.

OZ Defence is to do that...to rebuild against our enemies and potential enemies.
To do less is cowardly and vegetable.
If Im ever called up...Im going.
Thats how I will show my love for the women and children and old folks and the young people of my country.

To protect them is to show our love.

Born again christians have fought in so many wars since Christ went up to Heaven.
We will do it again here, if our government calls.

Thanks for those statistics PALE.
Im going to keep them.
They are some of the best Ive seen for a while:)

Islam is a violent ideology. A good example is Pakistan.

The difference between India (India is having trouble with their very own Indian Muslims) and Pakistan is their religion. Pakistanis are ethnically the same as Indians. Pakistan is founded on the Islamic ideal of having shariah law and the full range of Islamic practices. When the Muslims killed off the non-Muslims in Pakistan, the Muslims are now killing each other.

One of the ways for Australia to be a peaceful country is to do the politically correct thing. Stop Muslim immigration into the country. Just as Saudi Arabia and many Islamic countries make no apologies in not allowing non-Muslim religions to be propagated in their countries, non-Muslim countries should do likewise.

Secular Muslims in Western countries should be encouraged to leave Islam altogether. Just as the in India and Iran, many of the rational Muslims have left Islam altogether. In fact two fantastic websites are run by ex-Muslims (Iranians Indians) who know the Koran and the Islamic ideology inside out. These websites really inform the Muslims and non-Muslims alike about the practices of Islam. Since most Muslims can't understand Arabic, they become enlightened about the truth of their "religion".

http://www.faithfreedom.org/index.htm
http://www.islam-watch.org/

Somebody should forward PALE&IF's latest Islamophobic propaganda to the "Muslim leaders of Australia" with whom they claim to have a close working relationship. Mind you, I'll bet they have PALE&IF's measure already.

Better still, PALE&IF should employ real experts on Islam like Kactuz or Porkycrap to negotiate on their behalf.

PALE also advocates the death penalty for Australians who sell drugs.

kartiya jim, Gibo Philip

I have worked for many years with Muslim Leaders and I can say at a later date I may make 'informed' comments. ( Unlike Morgan who has some type of personality order in my opinion.

*Philip your comments regarding imagratation I can tell you are strongly shared by many Muslim people themselves.*

A lot of people feel so happy in Australia and love this country as much as you and I.

Its very difficult to pin point people who really want to become Australians in every sense of the word to the more extreme.

I fear we may have missed a good oportunity to work together with Malaysia. We had some fantasic people prepaired to reopen abattoirs in Australia and slaughter here in Australia ( Halal) sending whole carcuss to Malaysia.
This would have been very good for Australian farmers and the Australian punlic in general and kinder to the farm animals.

Now for those of you who think that has nothing to do with our it = *I say you must think again.*

Times are changing in the world. Working together with Malaysia and Australian farmers and others is just part of a vital plan that is needed.

Make no mistake Malaysia is to be the Halal hub of the world. She is building whole ports to export from there to ME etc. Strong ties with Malaysia are "esential" for Australia.

People working shoulder to shoulder forming friendships and greater understanding is required.
I addmitt I put this to our Muslim Leaders five years ago and to a point they acted on it.
However the Australian Government and others seem to have adopted my proposal 'only in part.'

It would apprear our Australia tax money will now go into building plants in Malaysia instead of the intended Australia.

This IMOP is due to the power of the companies with vetted interests in live exports. These companies pay enormous donations into political parties.

To Be Continue

PALE,

Normally I just skim over such long posts as yours but yours was very interesting and well worth reading.

Steel Man
http://www.halakindmeats.com/

Thanks. Do my best to explain
Malaysia and why I feel it’s so important.

First thing people need to understand
about Islam is that Halal products are ‘Law’-
its total way of life.
There is no separation between religion and Law.
Everything you eat, drink and all ingredients
you use to cook must be Halal (Lawful to Muslims)

By comparison just imagine if our Catholic
Church was paid for everything we ate drank and wore.

Considering Halal is a multi trillion
dollar industry its vital Australia gets it right.
Maylasia intend to be the Halal hub of the world.

In Australia our Muslim leaders
have an even more difficult task because
people come from all over the world.
Some ideas contrast enormously.

There are thirty two Islamic Councils and
sixteen of those do Halal Accreditations.
Not all of these councils acknowledge our
Muslim Leaders AFIC either. Even AFIC can have
disharmony within its own leaders.

The Australian Government has a bad
record regarding regarding supply of
live stock overseas. One of the best kept
secrets in the AWB enquiry for example was
that is wasn’t just money from wheat that went
to fund terrorism it was AWB involved with live exports.

This is something Kevin Rudd as Shadow
Minister of foreign affairs and trade 'despite
being desperate to get something on Downer
and Howard' refused to disclose to the Australian public.
Perhaps we can examine why later.


Its vital we look at what "Australian`s role"
is to be considering Australia is the largest exporter of live Animal in the world.

Despite what AQIS would have the Australian
public believe Malaysia isn’t a difficult
to deal with unless you are dealing with the wrong people.
(Something The Australian Government seem to well.)

What the Australian public and our farmers
require is a 'big part' in the Halal accreditations
working direct with JAKIM( Maylasia Halal accreditation Government authoritys)
We should also only have ONE Halal certifer in Australia to keep a tight hold on whom we are funding and dealings with.

http://www.livexports.com/cowgun.html

Malaysia is doing what a Muslim-majority country would do. They will stop any Muslim from leaving Islam, kill them if they have to. Malaysia per se is not at fault, it is the violent nature of Islam that causes Malaysia to behave irrationally.

In todays Malaysia newspaper, New Straits Times, the headlines was "Raja Petra to undergo religious rehabilitation" Raja, a Muslim, wrote articles expressing his own opinion about Islam. He was sentenced to two years jail without trial and had to undergo compulsory Islamic brain-washing.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Thursday/National/2359130/Article/index_html

The Islamic government in Malaysia destroyed many Hindu temples. In the recent elections, a state was won by the opposition which is also Islamic. The Islamic oppostion does exactly what the government did -- destroy Hindu temples!! So if you're a non-Muslim in Malaysia, you'll have a tough time.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/9/25/nation/20080925205422&sec=nation

The lesson for the West is don't allow for Muslim immigration, its a potential time-bomb.

Hi All.

Philip, I can only agree to a point.

In kactuz`s link it was stated there are
good Muslims like other religions.
Same applies to Australia.
It’s vital we have a good working
relationship with Muslim leaders here.

It’s deadly serious that our Australian
Government leaders are smart enough to know
the difference. Even more vital that they stand
up “now” to make Australia an important part of
working with Malaysia contacts.
If you think China is important I can
only say so is our friendship with Malaysia.

When I first made contact with Muslim leaders
here in Australia it was as a result of
my work for animals. I had sent out around
three thousand letters to all religious
leaders. We asked them to help us and take
some leadership towards our fellow creatures.

It was interesting to receive only one reply
from our Christian Churches. That one letter
was only to explain they were very busy.

Not one reply from any of our
Christian Church leaders... There was however
a reply from Australian Muslim Leaders.

This eventually led me to address 42 heads
in Sydney after being invited to their
meeting to speak on the topic of live
exports and Animal Welfare.

I tried hard to get somebody else
to attend this meeting. I tried Animal
liberation heads and RSPCA heads.

It was not long after the world trade
centre and nobody wanted to attend.
I went along quite worried about how a mere woman infidel might be received :)
After all I was about to tell them how cruel
their brothers were by transporting Animals
in 50 degree heat stacked like sardines and
also about slaughtering methods.

I can honestly say nothing could have
prepared me for their response and their
first question.
Their first question was “What on earth is happening with RSPCA in Western Australia.
These people were very informed. It was made clear by all in that room that not of them approved of live exports and animal cruelty.

To be continued

Continued.

Discussed why Australian Government supported live exports.
They went on to say they would "love to help
Australian farmers and create work for Australian People." =

http://www.livexports.com/afic.html

They made time to discuss this and were
perfect hosts offering food and refreshments,
even accommodation. Back in those days Dr Ali
(an old favorite of John Howard’s) was President
of AFIC and Amjad CEO.I also learned Muslim
leaders in Australia respect and treat Women
equally and have no problem working with them,
much to my relief.

First time I had every been
in a room where by 'everybody' agreed
cruelty to Animals was unexceptable.

Unlike Government leaders, while they
wriggle in their support of the industry
+the off shore owned shipping agents.
All of course make huge donations to
political parties.

We must also remember it’s “very much
in the interest” of Australian Muslim Halal certifiers
to do the accreditations here in Australia.
(AFIC) Federatation Islamic Councils Australian
is a NFP organization and is funded mainly by
payments to certify Halal products.

So there is our first clue.
If it’s in the interests of Muslim
Halal meat certifiers to contract to
certify Halal products 'here' in Australia.
Its also it’s very much in the interests of
our farmers and this country to work united
with our own Australian Muslim leaders.
(Providing they are the right ones)



A few years after our first meeting
we formed a MOU with AFIC to work towards
the interests of Animal Welfare.
We started working on Maylasia as answer
to fazing out live exports with carcass
Halal supply to be exported world wide.

They is no reason Australia can
not be partners with Malaysia slaughtering
here and exporting whole carcuss through JAKIM.

Thats trillions of dollars supplied
by Australian farmers and Maylasia working united.

This is our only chance to form strong
working relationships friendships and
understanding while Improving Animal Welfare
for our Australian farm Animals.

In the next post I will explain some of the work already done with Malaysia to make that possible and why I am so concerned about our Governments obtuse response.

Radical islamism is a challenge for Australia, but so is hysterical racism and nationalism.

It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion about Islam in the region when so many people attribute Muslims with the unstoppable powers of alien invaders from outer space.

The uneducated, underfed, poorly-armed Islamic radicals of the world pose no threat of any sort to Australia at large, so we can all calm down.

PALE, an ex-Muslim describes the real situation as far as mindless killing of animals in the of religion is concerned. There are many reasons why animals have to be exported and slaughtered before their very eyes.

"Animal sacrifice for the appeasement of an almighty God- That is the most deplorable act human can conduct in today’s world. It makes me wonder why no animal rights groups or organizations come forward to raise their voice against this primitive form of ritual called Hajj that involves the killing of silent animals in hundreds of thousands."

"This year they estimate there will be more than 700,000 animals sacrificed in Mina alone including 700,000 sheep and 8,000 cattle and camels. The livestock comes from all over the world, including New Zealand , Australia , Somalia and Egypt."

http://islamidiot.wordpress.com/2008/09/10/silence-of-the-lambs/

Sancho,

Hysterical racism and nationalism is both wrong and stupid. Muslims have no superpowers.

Having said that, understand that Islamic radicals come in all shapes, sizes and backgrounds. Many are not "uneducated, underfed, poorly-armed." What they have in common is a belief in a fascist, barbaric dogma that teaches violence and rejects basic Western concepts such as freedom of speech, religion, and equality.

Radicals are very clear about this. The moderates, even good Muslims, prefer to ignore their own teachings and history and want to believe that Islam is peaceful and the radicals are an abberation. Ain't so. The moderates, by their denial and ignorance, contribute to the cause of the radicals. Just look at Islamic societies. If moderate Muslims are so plentiful, why the discrimination and oppression of non-Muslims?

The reason that there is little reasonable discussion about Islam is because Muslims don't want top talk about the core issues of their faith and their practices. They will accuse you of racism and islamophobia but they will not tackle the problematic aspects of the Quran and ahadith. And so the violence continues and moderate Muslims condemn it and the violence still continues. Muslims never stop to ask why. Why?

Simple - because to be a Muslims you must believe that Islamm is perfect, Allah's plan for mankind. At that point, why consider any evidence to the contrary? I could tell you incredible stories about the stupid, silly things that Muslims say and do when confronted with facts and verses from their own writings. It would be funny if not so serious.

What we need is honesty and to confront Muslims with facts.

kactuz...

PS: And just because radicals may not now pose a threat to us, are we to ignore their evil deeds where they dominate? What kind of selfish morality is this?

*It makes me wonder why no animal rights ....

Philip Tang Hi

Animal Welfare Organizations
world wide have been screaming about the
barbaric treatment of these animals.

Australia must not forget WE
are the cause of this treatment.

After all 'We send them' knowing full well there are no animal
welfare laws there not to mention the cruelty onboard the foreign owned ships.

Can’t you hear their reply?
They would call us a bunch of hypocrites
which would be warranted.

We are the largest supplier of live animal exports in the world.
It is up to US to set some standards.

Education is the key here.

The answer isn’t in calling them
names anymore than it is attacking
the Australian farmers who breed them.

This is a very bad habit of most Animal
Welfare groups and in fact it makes our job harder.

Our organization was black listed by peak Animal Welfare groups because most oppose Animals being slaughtered "at all."

Clearly this isn’t the answer. For example
Australia isn’t a vegetarian country its 96%
main stream meat eaters. Yet the Australian
Government only acknowledges the group with strong
links to vegetarian views.?

Years ago the Australian Government would only agree to hold the first enquiry into Animal Welfare IF it was
presented from one angle only (A vegetarian Angle)?

Of course the ``pattern was then set`` to dismiss ' everybody '
as extremists to media and public.

Leading Animal Welfare Groups still cant see that. Or can they?
Its been suggested Animal Welfare in Australia for example s very political.
That’s a view I tend to share.

Yours is a fair comment, but the thruth is,
some Muslims, are far more educated than others.

**Above all, what controls the standards, as I pointed out earlier
is the accreditation fees paid to Muslim
Halal certifiers.**

Now if the Australian Government
stopped allowing AQIS to send these
animals ALIVE to God knows where we would
be morally and financially better off as a nation.

We have a very real opportunity in Australia to make the world of difference working 'with' Maylasia.

I have posted a few words from Maylasia. Its important we remember sauch products as cosmetics and many others are produced from raw materials of Animal bi products.
Some of theses links require membership however pls feel free to ask questions.

http://www.worldhalalforum.org/
“This is an important gathering to discuss and share ideas on how to push the halal agenda further forward…Malaysia continues to be open and keen to work with other countries in advancing the global halal industry .towards this end, the World Halal Forum and its programmes can provide an effective platform due to its focused agenda and wide ranging reach”

Datuk Seri Hj Abdullah Ahmad Badawi
The Prime Minister of Malaysia

TRADE AND MARKET ACCESS

.15 OCTOBER 2008

KUALA LUMPUR GOLF COUNTRY CLUB (KLGCC), KUALA LUMPUR, MALAYSIA

Opportunity for government officials, business community and representatives from academia and non-governmental organisations to discuss actions to improve competitiveness and economic prosperity
of Malaysia’s Halal industry.
Effective strategies and smart partnerships between the public and private sectors are essential for
success in this globalised economy. No where is this more important than in the Halal Sector

“Trade of Halal goods and services is growing at a rapid rate, creating increased competition and significantly widening the information gap between the Muslim world and Halal suppliers. This may be the biggest challenge facing the continued growth of this industry”– Nordin Abdullah, Deputy Chairman, World Halal Forum

http://www.halaljournal.com/?page=article&act=show&pid=2195

kactuz,
Just to add to a point you raised earlier:
“ Islamic radicals come in all shapes, sizes and backgrounds. Many are not "uneducated, underfed, poorly-armed." What they have in common is a belief in a fascist, barbaric dogma that teaches violence and rejects basic Western concepts such as freedom of speech, religion, and equality.”

The following is from - Militant Islam Reaches America -by Daniel Pipes:
“A widespread consensus, both Muslim and Western, holds that the surge in militant Islam results from economic stress….I argue otherwise by showing the absence of meaningful correlation between the two phenomena. Neither standard of living nor economic growth can predict whether a person or society will turn to militant Islam. Indeed, if one looks closely at the backgrounds of September 11’s nineteen suicide hijackers, ‘money, education and privilege ,’ as one wit notes, would seem to be the root causes of their radicalism and violence"

Horus
Its not just that. I have tried make a start to explain how it starts= 'the control' + what Australia needs to do;

As we have worked with many in Malaysia we see two very different approaches.

However it seems nobody is interested to hear from people with hands on expereince of working with Malaysia and Muslims of Australia.

I am sure it doesnt fit in with the anti Islam agenda to learn of projects to build a closer work arrangment and understanding.

Nobody wants to know about the oportunity on our door step

Just the other day I was in a large shopping complex and noted not just some of them but ALL the Take away food stores were Halal Accredited.

All this while a few yards down was one old chap standing alone collecting for the Salvation Army.

I took the time to walk up to the man and explain to him while he stodd their begging, the Muslim faith had already taken over the entire shopping complex by making money on each item of food that was purchased.

I was, going to explain, as well to posters how the leadership in Australia has changed and what that means to many Australians regarding working with Malaysia.

There is a great deal of unrest that has been going on for some time now.

This effects us 'all' in Australia. Pity about all those Aussie farm animals in need of your support of these projects as well.

Its very clear nobody understands how Islamic faith actually works on this forum and you clearly dont want to be told either. How they actually take control and through which industries.

SO Due to lack of interest in this thread I wont bother.


One cant help but think reap what you dam well deserve.

You want mercury for yourselves but stuff the Australian Farm Animals.

Malaysia on the brink- Lesssons for Australia 'indeed'.

PALE&IF: << I took the time to walk up to the man and explain to him while he stodd their begging, the Muslim faith had already taken over the entire shopping complex by making money on each item of food that was purchased. >>

That's just weird. You start out by complaining about "the anti Islam agenda", and then in the next breath you participate in it.

How exactly does the apparent fact that the takeaway food outlets in a shopping centre are halal-certified equate with your assertion that "the Muslim faith had already taken over the entire shopping complex"? What did you hope to achieve by approaching the Salvo and spouting that particular nonsense?

If takeaway food shops choose to use halal ingredients in order to tap into the domestic Muslim market, I imagine that's a simple business decision based upon a perceived market for halal products.

I don't know which "large shopping complex" you're talking about, but my experience of such places is that they comprise a mix of retail outlets and specialty stores, usually with a food court that sells various kinds of fast food of varying degrees of inedibility. Even if the entire food court was run by fundamentalist Muslims wearing burkhas, that would leave a large majority of other stores - not to mention the centre owners - that are neither Muslim nor halal.

Once again, PALE&IF has posted an hysterical Islamophobic rant - while purporting to have expertise in working with Muslims.

Like I said - weird.

Not weird. If there is money to be made, or question of survival of the farmers, one can be inconsistent.

Halal food is OK by itself, it is obvious that the Muslims copy from the Jewish kosher dietary laws (halacha). However, halal food is only a small part of the repressive Shariah law. By agreeing to halal food or in their promotion, you are also saying that the consumption of any alcoholic drinks is wrong (sinful).

This is very much like the pseudo-left (as opposed to the true-left of Russia, China and Cuba) who condemns Nazism but sucking up to Hitler-lover Ahmadinejad

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=9098

Philip Tang


The meat industry has been anything but a small especially for Australia + controls many other industries as well including cosmetics which in itself is huge.



We don’t bother to reply to CJ Morgan but I will point out that I wasn’t speaking of Halal taking over one shopping centre_ I was referring to the whole of Australia.




When we first started working with AFIC Dr Ali was President. It was myself who first put the proposal to AFIC to work with Australian farmers so I am hardely Anti Muslim.
The then leaders of AFIC adopted this and we worked hard for many years towards that goal- 'together' + singed a MOU.

Since the change of the guard (so`s to speak) many other things have changed as well.

Anybody following Muslim leadership in Australia would have read a seven page spread in the Muslim times written by Dr Ali and there have been several others.

We support Dr Ali and btw isn’t it funny how we are called by Morgan anti Muslim when we are SUPPORTING them.

We stand united with the many Muslims who out voted Ikebal Patel a few months ago and delivered a vote of no confidence in the new leader.



Now getting back to Malaysia and Australian Farmers and- considering I have no doubt Halal will eventually take control of the meat Industry - I say that our working program with AFIC was always to unite the Aussie Farmers with the purchasers in Malaysia and elsewhere.
It was to form co joint farms and abattoirs in Australia and export the whole of the carcass after our own job supplies were serviced.



If Australian farmers don’t do this with Malaysia Australia will be left behind. We should not be giving our tax payers funds for infrastructure in ME or Malaysia.

Australian tax payers funds should only be spent HERE .


Not to mention it’s in the best interests of our farm Animals.

We are far from anti Islamic however we are concerned at the new Agenda that is against our 'original' MOU with AFIC

Morgan

We are well aware of whats going on and who we can trust to work with Australian farmers and with citizens best interests and who isnt.

It must be rembered that some Muslim Leaders approached Howard eight years ago to make australia a Halal Slaughter country ONLY.

I think they public and especially our farmers need to know WHAT Rudd promised.

If you knew about our laws in Australia or Animal Welfare acts you would know that Halal Slaughter or any slaughter without pre stunning was always illegal

We have a review of Halal Slaughter under way at the moment where some suggestion has been sent from Germany that Halal slaughter without pre stunning is kinder.

I am not getting into that right now and anyway you have shown us over two years you have zero interest in farm Animals Welfare.

As this thread is about Malaysia and our work has been to UNITE Maylasia in a much closer working arragment direct with our farmers to benefit the whole of Australia your comments are way off beat as usual.

Our family regually hosts Muslim heads from all over this country and elsewhere.

Many of these people have become close friends and often stay in our home on regular trips.

It is this type of work we encourage far more of.

There are some fair minded wise Muslim people here and we MUST make sure it is those Muslim People are Government are in bed with.

Not the ones who are so chummy with the live trade industry such as elders AWB etc.

Friendships formed by Australian farmers working shoulder to shoulder in co joint ventures with Maylasia will do a great deal more for this country than a complete take over by the more extreme.

Maylasia is going to play a big part in trade down the track. We need to be partners and friends - not the lackys of the trade industry.

Regardless or not if people are Muslim or Non Muslim we speak out.

We have knowledge in the area in which we speak of- unlike yourself.

David
Its pretty clear who owns this thread .Its also clear as a bell you dont have the knowledge to debate me on this- or the best interest for Australia.
All you want to do is spread warnings of Islam.
Well heres a bit of info for you. If Rudd doesnt do something to bring these plants back to Australia and exports Halal Carcuss we can kiss Australia as we know know it goodbye.

( Thats puting Animal Welfare aside. And! If we contiune to do that in OUR Gods name we deserve all we get. Its called karma.