Antiseptic: "I note the Pynchme has not had the good grace to apologise for her violent, controlling behaviour toward me and Romany, as usual has had her little snipe and scuttled off rather than answer any questions she may find difficult."

There is no evidence of that; I therefore haven't anything to apologize for, but here you are being accusatory, demanding and nasty again. I don't know what you mean about controlling Romany or anyone. You'll need to point that out to me.

I'll read back a bit and see what's been happening - has Romany said that? As to "scuttled" - that's derogatory. I have always been erratic in my comings and goings here; that's because I often travel with work and sometimes only get hurried access to a shared computer somewhere.

Ask whatever questions you like and as always I'll answer as well as I can.

R0bert and anyone else who may be interested: This was an interesting site that I found recently. I'm posting the link in case you haven't come across it yet:

http://talk.gelworks.com.au/ManCont.nsf/MensGroups!OpenPage

The Special Advisors page is full of interesting things and there is a forum section.

Usual Suspct:

"I really believe Fractelle is hurt by all this, but the effect of her comments is to perpetuate the conflict."

1. So what you're saying is that the solution to any conflict of opinion is for Fractelle to be quiet rather than express her opinion.
2. Try imagining that the posts you two make are done by a woman with yourselves or any man as recipients. Maybe then you will be able to apply some empathic understanding to the situation.

Antiseptic: I just reread your post and I think I misread it the first time. You were complaining about both me and Romany, rather than saying that I had been violent and controlling towards you both.
If I have it straight now then you may disregard that part of my previous post. Btw: I don't know what you mean by "the DV industry". I am not part of a dedicated DV service. Even then, I don't think DV can be considered an industry.

R0bert:"you might find that there was a lot less angst if you put less effort into responding to attacks and focussed on the discussion"

I do focus on the discussion. I have made several posts to this thread in which I make every effort to bring the discussion back to the topic quite specifically. It is those efforts that have lead to most of the attacks.

Whilst I do respond when attacked although I rarely offer mere abuse. In this thread, I have endeavoured to give those attacking me enough rope to demonstrate the hypocrisy of their position, which they have duly done. My point in doing that was to give a clear demonstration of an escalating cycle of abuse from those who would claim that violence is entirely the responsibility of men. I believe I succeeded.

R0bert:"you may have to do things differently (fair or not)"

I respond to people in the way they respond to me, on the whole. On these forums that is entirely with our words. Any reputation we have is backed, quite literally, by our word. I stand by mine in this case.

However, you make a fair point. We all have the propensity for getting carried away with the argument and it takes two to make a fight. I'll try to turn the other cheek, even if that's an arse cheek occasionally...

I'm puzzled by some quote and the apparent removal of a post.

How does one delete a post ? I didn't think that was possible. Is there some button here that I can't see ?

If the post was removed by a moderator or something after it was quoted, that must have been done very quickly. Or if it was removed before the quote was done... is there a duplicate record kept somewhere ? I'd appreciate it if someone would explain the technicals to me. Thanks.

Pynchme,

'So what you're saying is that the solution to any conflict of opinion is for Fractelle to be quiet rather than express her opinion.'

No. This is, as far as I can see, a deliberate misrepresentation of my argument. What I'm saying is to bring up past grievences at the start of every new topic has the effect of continuing the conflict from other topics.

'Try imagining that the posts you two make are done by a woman with yourselves or any man as recipients. Maybe then you will be able to apply some empathic understanding to the situation.'

I don't need to. I get at least as much as I supposedly give. Maybe you could try this yourself when you attempt to paint anyone who wants recognition for male victims of domestic violence as trying to cover up violence towards female victims.

US: "Maybe you could try this yourself when you attempt to paint anyone who wants recognition for male victims of domestic violence as trying to cover up violence towards female victims."

Now you see that is either deliberate misrepresentation of my posts and opinions, or you are seeing my opinion through some sort of victim mentality.

You won't find any post by me that denies the importance of issues concerning male victims of DV; or that it happens. Quite the reverse. I have already posted my experience in meeting one or two male victims over the years and as I said, I stood for them and worked on their behalf just as I have and would for any female victim.

However, I will argue in opposition to Antiseptic's claim that there is no qualitative difference between different types of violence.

I have also urged men to tell their own stories; rather than trying to counter violence against men by seeking to establish parity with the victimization of females which, in my opinion, is unproductive and inaccurate. In fact, I can't see any reason why some groups try to do that.

I also think I have asked and if I haven't yet, then I will now - that if men are really concerned about male victims of violence, why isn't there at least as much of a concerted effort to address the victimization of men (and boys) by other men. Why is male on male violence a non-issue for you all when it constitutes most of the violence that occurs ?