Dear CJ... the problem with your understanding about 'certain death' is that while such might indeed ensue if one simply went out to insult peoples religion and prophet if that act was done where the legal system supported it, .. it doesn't generally apply when you approach people with the 'For God so loved' motive.

I can see no benefit whatsoever from deliberately offending people for 'offense's sake...just to annoy them. Passionate discussion, debate, and interchange aimed at reaching truth is quite different.

Even so, Paul experienced considerable physical violence and harm even with such motivation.. so it can depend a fair bit on the mentality of the audience.

I Pauls case "the Jews" as he refers to them, were after his blood simply because he taught, with complete sincerity, that the Messiah was Jesus. It was not the manner in which he delivered this news, but the fact of it that irritated them.

He spoke in synagogue, meeting halls,market place and from house to house. I do the same.

Horus is probably closest to being on the money in the topic.

Migration...always has consequences.(political,economic, social, and religious) The nature of those consequences depends on whether it is managed well, and for the benefit of the host country.

insult peoples religion
Polycarp,
I don't think that thinkers could be bothered with insulting religion. The reality is that religion is insulting to thinkers.

I'm sure I have mentioned this before on a number of occasions, Boaz.

One more time, then.

>>If, that is indeed 'the question' then the only place one can legitimately look is to the Quran and hadith, because it is on those documents that "Islam" is based..surely you agree with this?<<

No, Boaz, I most emphatically do not agree.

And the reason is because it is only the fanatic - Christian or Muslim - who believes that their guiding documents are meant to be taken word-for-word literally.

You know this, because you are the grandmaster of selectivity when it comes to Bible interpretation - this is literal, you say, this is "clearly" metaphorical.

My question was designed to allow individuals to draw a line under their own participation, and to show the difference between obedience to a religious doctrine and terrorist activity.

>>So..I don't know why it is even a 'question' which should be asked, rather than a statement which should be made.<<

That is only because you are adamant that there is no difference between a Muslim and a terrorist. This - as I'm sure you will deliberately not understand - is extremely insulting to your fellow human beings.

>>So..when you see a 'bunch of rabble rousers'... I see faithful Quranic Muslims<<

Fair enough. But exactly how many do you see?

>>"Who is closer to the historic and doctrinal truth..they or their 'moderate' brethren?"<<

Given that the "historic and doctrinal truth" of your own religion has morphed over the centuries, you should not really be surprised that ordinary Muslims understand that theirs has changed too.

So the level of "closeness" does not apply.

I am sure you would not consider it unusual for one second that the vast majority of Jews do not follow the rules laid down for them in Mosaic law - specifically, I guess, in Vayikra. Why should you then call into question a similarly civilized approach by Muslims to their guiding principles?

The only possible reason is that you wish to portray their religion in the poorest possible light, in case it challenges your own.

Pericles....

the issue is not 'how many' I see.. but the fact that the law, which phohibits 'hate speech' and incitement to violence can be so ignored by the Authorities when it is so flagrantly flouted.
That....is one source of my 'outrage' or 'fear and loathing' as you so quaintly put it.

What I "fear"... is that those in authority, duly elected by us, and those who were appointed by them... will be too fearful of applying the law even as it stands.. and we have the Chief constable Sir Ian Blair saying "No substantive offenses were committed"....of the Muslim demo at Westminster.

Well..I distinctly heard the words "Bomb bomb UK" and I rather think that a VERY substantive offense had been committed!

So.. one must ask "If a group of people can get away with such things".....will they not be emboldened? Reports estimate up to 700 of these people.. not exactly a tiny number.

Have a chew on this.. TWENTY TWO THOUSAND objections to a Mosque....
then the government

-Holds an Enquiry at the cost of P100,000 to the local council..
-Decides to overturn the objections.
http://www.euro-islam.info/spip/article.php3?id_article=2958
http://www.euro-islam.info/spip/IMG/_article_PDF/article_2958.pdf

Sound familiar?

Would it surprise you if people became rather 'radicalized' when their government ceases to listen to them?
Would it surprise you if a Cromwell arose from among them?

You see... its piecemeal.. bit by bit.. like a cancer on the neck.. but I don't expect you to see this, perhaps you've never seen a person with it?

What I "loathe" with righteous indignation.. is the 'thieves and merchants' in the Temple, in cahoots with the "secular PC Pharisees"
turning the country into a den of robbers against the clearly expressed will of the people.

Herilous..(as in heretic :)

you need to have a look at this demographic oultine of Dudley where the Mosque was built.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/dudleynorth

Notice..

POPULATION 78,681

White 90.4%
Christian 76.8%
Muslim 3%

3% OF 78,681 People= 2360 people.
yet... yet.. they can fund an 18MILLION pound mosque?

If you don't see some rather 'black' hands at work in Black Country..then my dear Pericles.. you are perilously close to the edge of an abyss of intellectual dishonesty of very deep proportions.

Now.. of course 'outside' help can be forthcoming.. and might be seen to be legitimate...depending of course on where it comes from, but there is also the 'steamrolling' of community wishes.. now.. you can call the 22,000 who actually wrote a pack of racists or Islamophobes, but then..I doubt you would admit in public to such blatant racism against your own people....would u ?

I've had some youtube message contact with a chap from Southall... he described how it changed as follows:

QUOTE:
southall used to be a largly populated white english area but when they allowed the first set of indians into the country they told there family to come over then there family told there mates to come and so on it became a chain reaction.

i am irish sicillian and most of the people in southall that are white are irish in the 80's southall had a large population of skinheads that where about i know this as most of my family where skinheads from the 60's 70's and 80's.
UNQUOTE:

So... the Dudley mosque.. and chain reaction?

You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel here, Boaz.

You stated - "So..when you see a 'bunch of rabble rousers'... I see faithful Quranic Muslims", to which I asked "Fair enough. But exactly how many do you see?"

Your response?

>>Reports estimate up to 700 of these people.. not exactly a tiny number.<<

When I see the words "reports" and "estimate" and "up to" strung together like this, my cynic-buds start to salivate.

So I thought I'd just take a look at the incident you are chuntering on about.

Is this the one, Boaz?

http://tinyurl.com/6n5ts3

It took place two years ago. The fact that this is the most recent incident of its type you could come up with tells us a lot about the frequency of such occurrences, does it not?

There were only a hundred people there. Not seven hundred.

"About 100 Muslim demonstrators took part in the protest. Slogans on display included 'Pope go to hell' and 'May Allah Curse The Pope'"

It is understandable that the police chief put the whole event into its proper context of a minor disturbance, and decided that given there was no damage done, the right to free speech should be supported.

As for your conniptions over the Dudley Mosque... what exactly are you trying to say?

>>3% OF 78,681 People= 2360 people. yet... yet.. they can fund an 18MILLION pound mosque?<<

The Muslim community is obviously very generous when it comes to building a place of worship. Oh, and, by the way, a community centre for the town.

Take a look for yourself.

http://www.dudley.ac.uk/temp/mosque_factsheet.pdf

I realize that it is not a YouTube video with lots of people shouting, but give it a try.

>>If you don't see some rather 'black' hands at work in Black Country..then my dear Pericles.. you are perilously close to the edge of an abyss of intellectual dishonesty of very deep proportions.<<

You know, Boaz, there's an old saying. To a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

You are the living proof that to a Christian evangelist, everything looks like an Islamic conspiracy.