Not convincing, stevenlmeyer.

>>I am resigned to the fact that you and those like you will dismiss any warning about the dangers of accommodating Islam as "mozzie-bashing."<<

In this sentence, you confirm that your intention was indeed to issue a "warning about the dangers of accommodating Islam"

Yet you seem to want butter on both sides of your anti-Islamic bread.

>>The words I highlighted are noteworthy simply because most people who have followed Fischer's career would not have expected him to write anything of the sort.<<

Face it, stevenlmeyer, your intention was crystal clear, and it was certainly not simply to draw attention to a "surprising" statement from Herr Fischer.

>>Your knee-jerk reaction indicates you are as much stuck in an intellectual rut as Boaz and I...<<

(I trust you will forgive the mischievous editing of the above, it was too good to resist.)

It may be an "intellectual rut" to you, but to me it is a carefully-weighed position that takes into account the realities of Islamic terrorism, the realities of human nature, and the realities of anti-Islamic sentiment from people with a vested interest in their own religion being "right".

The majority of your - and Boaz's - "evidence" is in your mind. You both take every opportunity to seize upon isolated incidents from which to draw the broadest and most pessimistic scenario possible, of religious warfare.

This may seem to you reasonable, and that you are only being a responsible citizen in bringing this to our attention.

But if you were ever to give it the slightest thought, you would see that to someone not steeped in anti-Islamic fear and loathing, it is nothing more than whack-a-mozzie rabble-rousing.

I don't expect you to understand this, of course, and I fully expect you both to continue trawling the world for the next gobbet of news that confirms your worst fears.

But don't expect me to refrain from pointing out that this, too, is clearly also a form of "knee-jerk" reaction.

Only in your case, it is aggressive, where mine is defensive.

Steven, the author does not define the nature of the strategic threat from Islam or from China for that matter. Are these threats territorial or resource squabbles or philosophical? Or just more dick swinging?

Do we have to accept the premise that Russia is currently lost to further democratisation and co-operative international relations? Do we have to accept the premise that the Russian bear knows only one way- that might is right? And that Europe must engage as much of the old eastern bloc within Nato as possible?

Seems to me there are bigger questions posed by the author than the one you have highlighted.

Those against western values & ideals must be having one belly ache after another from laughing at the west.
I suppose all they have to do is wait only a little longer until western stupidity is compulsory and that's it.

It is becoming increasingly *perilous* to read Pericles posts... I find the entertainment 2nd only to Frazier...and viewing that almost sends me into a terminal fit of laughter at times. Oh that Pericles mentality was actually funny! But it's not.

"The majority of your - and Boaz's - "evidence" is in your mind."

errr..'no'... it is in the Quran.. just like when Hitler wrote mein kampf, and later had the power to 'do' something about what he had written..and his speeches took on a more specific tone about destroying the Jewish people in Europe.. we have the Quran and it's genocidal foundations.. supported by such extreme statements in the hadith "The last hour will not come unless the Muslims kill the Jews" .. traditions which figured highly in Sheikh Feiz DVD series.. and where he STILL is the contact point on the Global Islamic Youth Centre's web site
http://www.giyc.com.au/html/
"Ask the Sheikh"... so.. he might be in Lebanon..but his presense is very real here.

"Give your children up for Jihad" (Sheikh Feiz)
"Kill the Jews so the last hour will come" (Prophet Mohammad)

(I'd call THAT 'fear and loathing' Pericles)

now.. even my 1 yr old grandaughter can work that out... 'BAD'....

I seriously think it is a mental condition yet to be named which can fail to see the potential consequences of not 'outing' this growing mentality.

If "Mohammad" says it.. show me the Muslim moderate or whatever who will stand outside Lakemba Mosque and publically declare "This is genocidal and evil".. in fact PERICLES can do that.. if he has the wherewithall down there and test his theories :)

C'monnnn Pericles.. test your theory in the real world mate...
"Mohammad was evil for calling Muslims to Kill Jews" Lakemba Mosque next friday ..around mid-day.

I recently stood in front of a few hundred Muslims making my views known.. I'm still in one piece.(so you can scratch 'fear' from your 2 worders)

I'm genuinely pleased that you find my contributions here amusing, Boaz. Life would indeed be grim if we couldn't chuckle, eh?

My joy at being on the receiving end of your insults is somewhat tempered by your insistence on grasping the wrong end of the logic stick, brandishing it above your head as if you were an extra in Braveheart, and then completely missing your intended target with it.

>>[the evidence] it is in the Quran.. just like when Hitler wrote mein kampf<<

What you achieve with this sentence is simply to clarify for us the source of your fear.

While it is certainly true that there are fanatics out there who cleave to the most aggressive possible interpretation of the tiny number of verses that support their terrorism, there are vast numbers of peaceful, ordinary people who have no such ambitions.

You yourself make this very point, albeit without comprehending its significance.

>>I recently stood in front of a few hundred Muslims making my views known.. I'm still in one piece.(so you can scratch 'fear' from your 2 worders<<

Two aspects of this strike me immediately.

One is that you give the lie to your own perception that people who follow this particular set of religious rules are naturally aggressive, and search out people like you to eradicate. It is obvious that your audience was not guided by those verses that you crack on about, Interminably.

But further, it shows a misunderstanding of "fear" in this context.

I am not talking about physical fear. There are enough stories around that describe the physical bravery of overly-religious people, ranging from Androcles to suicide bombers.

I'm talking about the fear that your belief system will crumble in the face of another belief system. One that has its own power, based upon a similar belief in the same deity as yours, and is fuelled by the same puritanism and misogyny that drove your own version for many centuries.

That is the fear that I refer to.

And it also underpins the loathing that you - quite naturally - wish us to share.

As an afterthought, Boaz, it might be appropriate to comment on another aspect of this last post of yours.

>>show me the Muslim moderate or whatever who will stand outside Lakemba Mosque and publically declare "This is genocidal and evil".. in fact PERICLES can do that.. if he has the wherewithall down there and test his theories :) C'monnnn Pericles.. test your theory in the real world mate... "Mohammad was evil for calling Muslims to Kill Jews" Lakemba Mosque next friday ..around mid-day.<<

This - I guess it is some form of personal challenge - again demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of the position of a non-combatant in this religious war of yours.

I am as little persuaded by the contents of the Qur'an as I am by the contents of the Bible. So what on earth would persuade me to support an interpretation of one over the other?

You may be convinced that your battle against Islam is being waged on my behalf as well, but to me this is nothing more than self-deception on your part.

I would suggest that if you were to poll Australian Muslims with the question "Do you believe Al-Qaeda's terrorism is a valid representation of your personal views as a Muslim?", you would get an answer predominantly in the negative.

And from my point of view, the argument is all about terrorism, not about which religion is "better".

So you can waffle on all that you want about how this verse in the Bible is more peaceful than that verse in the Qur'an. To me it is meaningless.

It might of course be more persuasive - not to me, as I said before, but to those of a religious bent - if you weren't so selective in your use and application of quotations from the two books.

But that's another story, isn't it?