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The Forum > General Discussion > Georgia v Russia: Where are the loons?

Georgia v Russia: Where are the loons?

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Russia has invaded Georgia, because inter alia, the Russians allege that Georgian separatists attacked Russian Peacekeepers. Georgia is a friend of the USA (and by extension Australia), so the concerns arising from this are real and serious. Georgia has asked for a ceasefire (or offered a truce, different words but the same thing). Russia has described this as a cynical move given that the conflict was initiated by Georgia and has refused to contemplate the same.

America has since condemned this stance on the part of Russia, while decrying the use by Russia of airstrikes upon targets far removed from the region of Georgia which is the site of the major conflict.

What is lesser known is that the USA has admitted to having anything up to 150 serving servicepeople in the region at the moment (and prior) of the attack, by the Georgian army upon the Russian Army Peacekeepers', which attack was launched across an internationally recognised border. It would be extremely interesting to investigate whether or not the USA was aware of the planned assault, though I am sure the damage control teams are currently in operation and a scapegoat will soon appear.

This is interesting, whereas one couldn't get away from public comment when the Russian-backed Hizbollah attacked the IDF over the Shaba'a farms (disputed area) and Israel launched wideranging airstrikes to bring Lebanon to its knees, this is a role-reversed, direct parallel which appears to have escaped critical attention. I'd be very interested to see what the usual suspects think of the initial assault by American trained, armed & supplied insurgents and the validity of the Russian response. It certainly seems that this is going to be the way the future proxy-wars will be fought.
Posted by Haganah Bet, Sunday, 10 August 2008 7:54:01 PM
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It is interesting again that Georgia has a lot of oil.Gough Whitlam ignored East Timor when we lost 5 reporters in the 70's,yet when oil was found in the Timor Sea,suddenly East Timor needed saving.

The US is using Georgia as a wedge to further isolate Russia and Russia wants the oil.Are we surprised?
Posted by Arjay, Sunday, 10 August 2008 9:18:45 PM
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1. When the U.S. began providing military assistance and training to Georgia, both the Washington and Tblisi claimed there was evidence of Al Qaeda hiding out in Georgia's Pankisi region, THIS WAS A BIG LIE! United States, is the largest military contributor, providing training and equipment for several years now.
2 Georgia and its breakaway republic of South Ossetia have always had an uneasy relationship. The first major conflict between the sides took place in 1918-1920. South Ossetia broke away from Georgian rule in a war in 1991-92 in which several thousand people died, Russia granted passports to most of its residents. Georgia signed a cease-fire agreement that left South Ossetia effectively autonomous, but unable to secure recognition by the international community A peacekeeping force with 500 members each from Russia, Georgia and North Ossetia was monitoring the truce.
2. On Friday, When the world leaders was in China, Georgian forces shelled South Ossetian population centers and launched a ground invasion deep into the territory. The city came under attack by aircraft, artillery and armor, and South Ossetia officials claimed that more than 2,000 people had been killed. THE OFFENSIVE WAS A GAMBLE, because Saakashvili should have had little doubt about Moscow's readiness to defend the separatists. Moreover, NATO officials had repeatedly warned the Georgian government against launching any attempt to resolve the dispute through military means.
3. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said his country is seeking "to force the Georgian side to peace". Russia launched massive artillery shelling and air attacks on Georgian troops. An American official said."This is a very localized conflict ... There is not a danger of a regional conflict at all in our minds,"
4. According to “THE WASHINGTON NOTE” Saturday, Aug 09 2008, 11:14AM http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2008/08/georgiarussia_c/ “Saakashvili who has been agitating for Georgia's membership in NATO just lost his chance with his own reckless behavior. Saakashvili's decision to send tanks into South Ossetia gave Russia the trigger that it may have wanted to send in more of its own troops and weapon systems. Russia was ready.”

Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide
Posted by ASymeonakis, Monday, 11 August 2008 7:59:23 PM
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Our media have learned nothing from recent history and their ignorance (whether deliberate or not is another question) is shameful. I've learned something interesting here from hanagah bet that I never heard on the media broadcasts. The media have also apparently ignored the Georgian attacks on the South ossetians with their military. The news these days is almost worthless.
Posted by Steel, Monday, 11 August 2008 8:22:48 PM
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What was not mentioned is that Georgia's leader offered a ceasefire, last week, after 15 days of fighting, or that the assault was prompted (allegedly) by the breaking of that ceasefire almost immediately by the Ossetian rebels who proceeded to shell Georgian villages/towns. Also not mentioned is the direct military support and supplies provided by the Russian Army to the Sth Ossetian forces (also in Abkhazia) and has little time for the Georgian leader.

Perhaps this map might put the issue in perspective:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Caucasiamapussr.gif

Yes, the region bordering Georgia to the South is Turkey, the region to the NW is Chechnya, while the country not far to the South of Georgia (which also borders Turkey) is actually Iran (yes, the future NATO target).

What a lot of people don't seem to have seen is that the Russian Army is unlikely to invade Georgia itself, or be successful if it does (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3550183,00.html). The countryside is suited (as the Russians discovered in neighboring Chechnya) to defense, particularly by well armed and equipped irregular forces. Given the US support and the border with Turkey, the supply lines are secure and the Georgian forces could continue the fight indefinitely (especially when the remaining 2,000 front line troops arrive home from Iraq).

Why would the USA/NATO do so? The oil pipeline running through Georgia is vital to the security of NATO. I strongly suspect that the upcoming siege of Tskhinvali, in which the Georgian forces will occupy the high ground on 3 sides of the city, will end up as a defeat for the Russians in the long term. The combination of oil and military bases to the North of Iran/South of Russia make Georgia far too important for the Americans/NATO to consider blinking. That and the opportunity to test their latest munitions against T80's and BMP-3's makes this a proxy war of note. Don't be at all suprised to see the Georgian's reequipping with M1A2's and AH64's (there are actually pictures of knocked out Russian T80's in the news, these weren't knocked out by RPG's, no way in the world).
Posted by Haganah Bet, Monday, 11 August 2008 9:41:31 PM
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I read recently that the civilian population of South Ossetia were without water for one whole month, as the Georgians had cut the water to the region. The Georgians are war criminals in my opinion,just like the Serbians and Israelis.
Posted by Steel, Tuesday, 12 August 2008 12:01:04 AM
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