dott,

I said drugs CAN be fun, and often harm free. All 'recreational' drugs are fun, or else why would people take them, and risk prosecution and pay lots of money for them? Most drugs and harmless used in moderation. There are risks involved, as there are risks involved in many enjoyable activities. But on the whole most episodes of drug use result in no lasting harm

Usual suspect: Recreational drugs are neither safe nor "fun" for the many whose lives are harmed by them. Ask the parents of those who have died, whose kids live an awful addicted existence. Admit to drug use and your chances of getting a decent job are axed. Take drugs and next thing you are stealing from mates, lying to friends and family.Making mistakes at work - losing jobs.
Illicit drugs destroy the brain.Fun for a few hours perhaps, if you survive, not so funny the after effects.

There should be NO tolerance for illicit drug taking - no tolerance for illicit drug pushing. If you feel that is is OK, that there is a 'grey area' when it is OK, then I can only believe that you also think that there is an acceptable level of violence against women, against children and against men too - hey guess what - alot of violence is AS A RESULT of drug taking.
Tobacco, a legal drug causes so much misery and illness and financial strain.
The inability to say "no" to sex - is often as a result of illicit drugs, spiked drinks, too much legal alcohol or addiction necessitating prostitution for males and females.
I have read many of your posts and given you some credit in the past. Sorry, never again.
One day you may have to face your teenager telling you they are in trouble, or deal with the aftermath of a friends death and then I hope that your views will change.
I will forever stay on these messages to my children and adults I encounter:
NO to drugs
NO to violence
NO to being co-erced into unwanted sexual encounters
NO to gratuitious display of bodies to satisfy the various lusts of corporations and anonymous consumers.

dott, I've just had a small glass of wine. I do that a couple of nights a week. I've never been drunk, always made sure I'm way under the limit if I'm going to drive (or generally don't drink at all when I know that I'll be driving later). Some medical advice suggests thats good for my health.

That glass of wine would be illegal in some parts of the world (an illicit drug) yet used the way I used it was harmless and fun. I've got no plans to go steal from a mate, lie to any friends or go bash someone.

I've chosen to avoid the risks of drungs other than alcohol, caffine paracetamol and medically prescribed drugs but have taken part in other activities with risks associated with them. The world is not always black and white.

R0bert

Robert. the drugs that "usual suspect" refers to are those that "risk prosecution and (people) pay lots of money for them" - ie illegal.
Lets not cloud the subject of drug taking with such statements as " oh I have a glass of wine now and then" - a glass of wine in this country is not illegal, but causing damage due to binge drinking is. Caffine paracetamol and medically prescribed drugs (for the intended recipient) are not illegal.Caffine and sugar are abused - look at the obesity epidemic, addiction to caffine drinks - many laced with sugar causing rotten teeth as well.I know a bloke who drank nothing but diet cola. Ruined his kidneys.Heath Ledger died from abuse of 'legal' drugs.

In today's society when the statement is made " drugs are bad" it is referring to illegal drugs or abusive use of legal 'drugs'.

Ask a Salvation worker what they think of this issue, ask the parent of a drug addicted child, or a person who has been bashed by an ice addict - or a family who has been torn apart by alcohol abuse.

Maybe society should be more 'black and white' about issues. Drug and alcohol services try to do just that. Draw the line - give our kids guidelines and adhere to them ourselves.

No to illegal drugs and abuse of legal drugs.
No to violence. full stop.
No to co-erced sexual activity
No to exploitation of human bodies in any manner.

Anything less is minimising and clouding the harm that is done to those who have not been empowered to use the word "no", along withthe harm to their families/friends/workmates/strangers.

dott, I don't see it as clouding the issue, rather illistrating the point. Alcohol when misused does enormous harm but when used appropriately is a good thing. It seems to be a judgement call regarding the risks and current social/religious values if a particular drug is illegal or not. As I pointed out alcohol is banned some places and in some situations. Our society currently allows that drug but not all societies do.

I'm of the view that most people make better choices with the correct information than when they discover the party line is flawed. If you say that all illicit drugs are always bad when people find thats not the case they are likely to ignore the true stuff you have been saying as well. Black and white is about imposing values on others rather than allowing them to make informed decisions for themselves.

Did you follow the contraception debate on one of the abortion threads recently. Some abstenance proponents things it clouds the issue to give kids a plan "B", to tell them about contraception and that the message should just be abstenance. Kids taught that way on average start sexual activity earlier than kids given a comprehensive sex education. They are more likely to have an unplanned pregnancy and more likely to seek an abortion. Staying on message in that case is counter productive and I suspect that would also be the case with illicit drugs.

Part of this discussion will get down to what we each believe about peoples rights to make choices for themselves, what we believe about access to information.

I don't believe that we equip people to make good choices about drug usage by presenting a one sided view of drugs.
I agree with you about violence if I'm reading your comment appropriately.
Agreed on no coerced sexual activity but I don't think that sex should be singled out, people should as far as practical be free of all coercion.
No to exploitation of human beings but humans should be free to make choices about what they do with their bodies.

R0bert

Dott, I've mentioned on another thread that I've been smoking marijuana more or less regularly since I was in my late teens and I'm now 45. It's never been a legal drug in that time and at one stage here in Qld the people I purchased it from were risking many years in jail for supplying it to me.
In that time I've not been forced into crime, I have tried other "harder" drugs such as LSD, cocaine, psilocybin ("magic mushrooms") and amphetamines, but I've never been tempted to try heroin. I've not become addicted to any of the things I've tried although I have seen a couple of cases of what may be incipient addiction to amphetamines. I used to smoke cigarettes, but gave them up about 10 years ago.I've not drawn the dole since I was about 22 and I've been more-or-less successfully self-employed since 2000.

Please tell me what harm I have caused to be done by my use of drugs? I recognise that I may have damaged my lungs through both cigarette and marijuana smoking, but otherwise?

The trouble with the so-called "drug debate" is that there the laws have made it very risky for anyone who uses one of the controlled substances to speak out in defence of what they do, since they risk having the police turn up and getting charged with possession. therefore, the discussion is dominated by those with either no knowledge of the subject or those whose work is to treat the ones who go off the rails. There is a huge amount of disinformation peddled in the name of "helping" and anyone who objects is easily categorised as "just a druggie" or worse, as someone who wants to kill others simply to make a profit.
Prohibition doesn't and never has worked. Legalisation and harm-minimisation do work. Ask yourself why we as a society have chosen one over the other.