Robert

Thanks

I admit I am a bid out of touch as to this thread. I just made comment as I always do on live exports.

Your impression of the program would be pretty correct, however don’t forget they are hardly going to make a big deal about live exports in ‘any report’ given the world wide criticism of the cruelty involved in live exports either.

Make no mistake these animals would be a huge part of the deal. That is the problem because we can’t treat animals as just another supply of goods like cars tiers.

The whole thing needs to go to the UN with some high profile people supporting it.
You see Robert live exports don’t help Australia it actually hurts it in economical terms and by reputation. Given that Australia are the largest exporters of live animals its up to us to lead the way to make those changes.

The Minister for Immigration and Kevin Rudd have a perfect opportunity right now to do just that with Rudd’s new Asians in regional areas policy. After all we can’t have all these new migrants on welfare for ever.


* What you suggested three years ago when posting to Celiva was very good.*

It’s a bit long to put here. Basically you said for everybody who cared about Animals to write down all the places you could shop in your local area where animals are treated in a humane manner- i.e. Free Range Eggs Chicken beef and so forth and get it out to the locals and encourage others Australian wide to do so…. There was more.

Also I assure you I wrote the last few posts.

The difference between pale and the others is very little really.

We are all shocked and appalled by the way the Australian Government allows our Animals to be treated and outraged by the lengths they go to hide it.
We think its best to reopen abattoirs which the veggies quietly oppose.
That’s pretty much it.

I hope you continue to take an interest in sensible suggestions to improve animal welfare.

This is pure conspiracy theory, PALE&IF.

>>Your impression of the program would be pretty correct, however don’t forget they are hardly going to make a big deal about live exports in ‘any report’ given the world wide criticism of the cruelty involved in live exports either. Make no mistake these animals would be a huge part of the deal.<<

You appear to be suggesting that the absence of an admission that live animals are involved, is proof that they must be.

Your assertion that "these animals would be a huge part of the deal" is not only unsupported, but flies in the face of the information that we do have about the programme.

As R0bert so patiently pointed out, there is an entire support infrastructure that would, in financial terms, outweigh any element of transportation.

Given this, I have to point out, it is also very much in the interests of the programme as a whole that the live animals - should there indeed be any - would be extremely well cared for in transit.

So as an afterthought, this is probably not at all comparable with the "live export" that involves packing them in intolerably cruel conditions.

All appearances are that it is a humane and life-saving programme, carefully thought-out, that is a great deal more than just sending bags of flour. On that basis, I feel it is extremely defensible.

Incidentally...

>>World wide there are millions starving yet all we do is talk about sending some more milk or meat etc. Thats stupid and a five year old could work out its useless.<<

A five-year-old might also be able to work out that providing someone with the means to a livelihood is a far more powerful anti-poverty action than sending food alone, as implied by your "sending some more milk or meat etc" comment.

They might also think that interfering with their right to raise a family is just a step too far. Would you be prepared to support similar dictatorial intervention in your life?

#This is pure conspiracy theory, PALE&IF.#

*Is it really?. BTW we get a lot of requests for live cattle for milk but that’s another story. The answer is always the same. “NO” The reason there is a world wide shortage of milk is obvious. I don’t think breeding more and more animals is the answer.

Pls excuse me if I go on past experience. I recall spending ages trying to convince Mark Pearson and AA that AWB were live exporters.

*Its clear you did not read my post to Robert fully where by I said this=*

*Robert

I don’t have anything at all on this because I have been away.
Took it on face and to be really honest with you I am sick of reading reports.

Our Australian dairy farmers have been screwed to the wall.

Incidentally... do you know how many have committed suicide since they deregulated milk. ?

Now isn’t that kind of weird when you think of it really isn’t it. I mean here we are in the middle of a world wide milk shortage but good old USA leads the way as always.

The fact is USA and the UN have bled this country dry while our Governments said Yes sir no sir.

*Well you may say we should save the world but who will save Australia? Our country is just about stuffed now sending our work off shore for years. Country towns have closed by the hundreds and farmers and their familes have been destroyed. Or don’t Aussies count to you.*

#
They might also think that interfering with their right to raise a family is just a step too far. Would you be prepared to support similar dictatorial intervention in your life?#

Uneducated people require wise rulers and control of births.

Its time some of these good Christian leaders realized that and took action.
I do not see one life as being superior of another.

We share this earth with many creatures and we are just one of them.

There are some fairly outlandish and irrelevant statements here. There was, as I understand it, some time elapsed in the AWB matter, and the bottom line is that Mark Pearson particularly, and AA, are very good strategists who probably saw the level of public apathy about this and realized it was going nowhere (and it did go nowhere).

Also, what is the basis for the statements about dairy farmers committing suicide and a world wide shortage of milk? Are there statistics to support that, or is it just high drama? It is apparently documented that about 90% of the people to whom these dairy cattle are being directed are lactose intolerant, so does this program really meet anyone's fundamental needs? Sorry, Pericles, you have cited one family, who may have got lucky.

"Gift" animals from various charities are sent to countries where there is no infrastructure to properly care for them, and THAT is the animal welfare issue, along with transport. Pericles, the Australian live export industry, which "cares" for those animals, regards 40,000+ dead animals (just on the ships and the figure is rising every year despite lower numbers being exported as "collateral damage", so what makes this any different? Particularly in view of the treatment they will receive, even those bred by AI.

It is extraordinarily paternalistic to say that "uneducated persons require wise rulers and birth control", too. This is not something that should be enforced, particularly by the corrupt and despotic regimes in these countries; look what goes on in China in that context.

Nicky

Nicky, you might be attacking the wrong program. The charity implementing this program does also do the gift animal thing but in this case nobody has shown any evidence that animals are being shipped in. I've also pointed out that this is only a small part of a much larger program which is addressing many of the other problems such as infrastructure, soil degredation etc.

If you want to attack the gift animal programs go for it but it seems unreasonable to attack what Bill and Melinda are doing without showing any evidence that your concerns apply to their philanthropy.

I put up material early on lactose intollerance which claims that most infants are not intollerant, it's something which generally develops later in life.

There may be problems with this program but to continue to repeat the same claims without supporting evidence in the face of material which suggests those claims are wrong does not help focus attention on any problems which may exist.

R0bert

Roert

Thats a fair comment. I said three times now I only came to read the last few comments and the title which I assumed the author had researched.


To move onto the above post from Nicky. It is a clear example of what she 'doesnt know'.
I really dont like doing this to fellow animal lovers but here are the facts from one to three .
1
If Nicky had the 'slightest idea' whats going on in the industry world wide she would know there is a critical shortage of milk supply.

Its shameful that she doesnt know the plight of Aussie dairy farmers. They are fORCED to sell their milk overseas to make a living thanks to our Governments.

You have GOT to understand the farmers positions to help animals.

2Mark Pearson particularly, who is a top bloke didnt have a clue about AWB being live exports when I rang him- neither did AA.

The difference between Mark and the others is that hes a straight up guy who said Hell Wendy I didnt know that can you send us some docs or something.( We were discussing holding a joint rally outside AWB to protest live exports)

We sent the doc and also to AA l and Kevin Rudd the then shadow Minister who headed for the hills big time.

One minute Nicky says the public demand live exports to be banned but now suddenly she says AA did nothing because they saw the level of public apathy about this and realized it was going nowhere (and it did go nowhere). ? Strewth.

Actually it was because they were already well into a intensive piggery protest and being overnight like that was too much for them to handle both

I am not critising them simply making an honest statement.

I am pointing out why many eyes ears and hands working together is vital.

I am sure they know heaps of things that we dont in other areas.

3 Its clear the UN need to look at birth control to save millions from suffering.