African nations, ravaged by drought, will be thankful for Gates assistance with their agricultural requirements such as seed and sustainable crop production.

However, how Gates is going to solve the “creeping desert” problem and water shortages in these countries by supplying more livestock, is anyone’s guess.

Some African nations such as Swaziland are almost entirely located on degraded soil. Have any environmental impact assessments been performed on these recipient nations?

The Heifer Project is not new. It was a Church of Brethren agent, Dan West of Goshen, who conceived of the Heifer Project in 1944, aimed at reestablishing herds in war-ravaged countries. For years, he collected donated livestock - cows, bulls, goats, sheep, hogs, and rabbits and had them exported.

An article in the NY Times Magazine during January 2008, mentioned the Heifer Project. It seems that now the Holstein cattle gifts have crowded out native African species, which although better adapted to the environment, don’t produce as much milk.

Of course now they’re finding out that the Holsteins impact the environment much more. Want more milk = need more fodder = need more water.

Lactating cows require up to 115 litres of water per day. One goat can desecrate a landscape in a week - I had one!

But if you insist ladeez un gennilmen, do get your cheapest 'eifers 'ere...

”- Eight cows for the price of one! Get your heifers for £70 at Help the Age and save a packet. You'll wonder what World Vision are playing at charging £574 for theirs.

”- Why pay more for your goats? At World Vision it's two-for-one time as they're selling them off for £14! Never pay £24 for a goat at Oxfam ever again.

”- Chickens: Fed up paying £5 a chicken at Help the Aged? Get five - with a coop thrown in - for £20 at Good Gifts.

”- Farms: Don't get ripped off by Good Gifts' £25,000 version! Get one on the cheap at Send a Cow - a bargain at twice the price at £2,000! “

Errr....I'll go for the fruit trees thanks!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23376556-details/Why+giving+a+goat+for+Christmas+'hinders+those+in+poverty'/article.do

dickie, we really didn't need yet another link to an article about those bleedin' goats.

This thread is about cows. That's what the initial charge sheet read - Bill and Melinda are delinquent in their philanthropy because they are now exporting cattle.

To be fair, you did earlier in your post refer to an article that was in fact about cows.

>>An article in the NY Times Magazine during January 2008, mentioned the Heifer Project. It seems that now the Holstein cattle gifts have crowded out native African species, which although better adapted to the environment, don’t produce as much milk.<<

But why did you not link to it?

http://tinyurl.com/5jbwy6

It is actually a very balanced article. There are obvious concerns at the possibilities of losing local cattle strains in the next fifty years. (It doesn't say "Holsteins have crowded out native species", by the way.)

But there are also some shorter term issues that have a somewhat different flavour.

"But the foreigners [Holsteins] possessed arguably the single most important adaptive trait for livestock: they made money. Holsteins are lactating behemoths. In an African setting, a good one can produce 20 or 30 times as much milk as an [localbreed] Ankole."

Which, I would suggest, from a business point of view, makes immediate sense.

"Before he received the cow, Sezibwa said, he was hungry and destitute. All he owned were some banana trees and a one-room house roofed with thatch. Then he and his wife were given Kevina [a Holstein] by a charity called Heifer International."

"Kevina churned out around six and a half gallons of milk a day. (A typical Ankole would have given him between a quarter and a half gallon.) His family drank some of the milk, and he sold the rest, netting around $100 a month after expenses. In a country where an estimated 85 percent of the population lives on less than $1 a day, that’s substantial income. The money finances school for Sezibwa’s six children."

Isn't it nice to get a more rounded picture, all the better to discuss the pros and cons?

Pericles

You state: "dickie, we really didn't need yet another link to an article about those bleedin' goats." To which links do you refer?

Heifer are avid promoters of gifting goats, therefore, goats are very relevant.

"But why did you not link to it?

"http://tinyurl.com/5jbwy6"

Simple Pericles and please cease jumping to conclusions. I have not read that link until now.

"Isn't it nice to get a more rounded picture, all the better to discuss the pros and cons?"

Indeed yes Pericles and the "rounded picture," according to reputable, international environmental and health authorities is that the world must drastically reduce its livestock or suffer the consequences which we are already witnessing in Australia, which happens to have 6 times more livestock than humans.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20772&Cr=global&Cr1=warming

You apparently are not interested in ecological matters but the state governments here are already purchasing pastoral properties and tying them up for conservation. Parts of WA are listed as one of the planet's most threatened ecological communities.

Yet these words of wisdom are ignored by the corporate West who are instigating a Livestock Revolution here and in developing countries since they believe, the more livestock, the better the profits.

"Which, I would suggest, from a business point of view, makes immediate sense."

Ah yes Pericles - "the business point," of course. In the meantime, perhaps you'd like to ponder the stark realities of Africa and I trust that Sezibwa, whom we in the West have made dependent on a resource depleting cow, has an alternative source of income for his survival when the cow succumbs to disease, starvation, thirst or banditry.

In the meantime, Africa must receive assistance in soil remediation, sustainable agriculture, clean water, ethical pest an insect control, education and health.

So whilst we proudly "buy" a cow, goat or a donkey for a poor person, time is running out for the other millions and despite the gifting of this livestock for more than half a century, these people are now reduced to begging and are in a diabolical situation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/killer-drought-threatens-east-africa-467259.html

http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=79374

http://www.irinnews.org/report.aspx?ReportId=79079

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/WFP/6c6b60c4f1dd3c8177d857c54e6502ae.htm

My my, dickie, you do jump about a bit, don't you?

>>You state: "dickie, we really didn't need yet another link to an article about those bleedin' goats." To which links do you refer?<<

The ones you provided at the end of your last post, dickie. Which ones did you think I meant?

>>But why did you not link to [the New York Times Magazine article]? Simple Pericles and please cease jumping to conclusions. I have not read that link until now.<<

But dickie, it was a key theme to your post, was it not? You wrote:

>>An article in the NY Times Magazine during January 2008, mentioned the Heifer Project. It seems that now the Holstein cattle gifts have crowded out native African species, which although better adapted to the environment, don’t produce as much milk.<<

Now you tell me you hadn't actually read the article? You presumably just copied the soundbite from someone else's blog, complete with errors. Poor show.

>>...and the "rounded picture," according to reputable, international environmental and health authorities yada yada yada<<

Hey, pal, you quoted the article, not me. If it wasn't the one that supports your argument, that's hardly my fault, is it?

And in that article - the one that you referred me to, may I remind you - it clearly describes a situation where a family who would otherwise have starved to death actually has a life, and something to look forward to with his six kids - at school, even.

That is what the charity is providing. Life. Hope. What is it about you that allows you to begrudge them this?

Look, you obviously enjoy sitting back in judgement over the efforts that other people make to bring hope to the needy in Africa. But as far as I can tell, they are doing their level best to bring some hope to people where there currently is none.

Incidentally, you may like to check again the last four links you provided.

None is at all relevant to the topic here.

I hope your armchair is warm and comfortable.

Hi all

To take this back to the simple basics ... there is no infrastructure to manage the "produce" of these animals, just what do they plan to feed them to ensure the "high yield", veterinary care is all but non-existent, (most likely doctors too, to deal with the lactose intolerant) and, as Dickie points out - we're talking about lands already substantially degraded. I think before philanthropists leap into "feel good" little numbers like this, Ben Horin is absolutely right - get "down and dirty" and look at what will REALLY work (health, education, and sustainable plant-based operations make more sense). I can't imagine the life expectancy of these unfortunate animals would be that great either - what then?

Cheers
Nicky

Hi Nicky

You touched on artificial insemination in your original post. I thought you may be interested in the following scientific papers I came across:

'The familiar black and white Holstein cow, which has spread around the globe as they replace the local breeds of farm animals kept in the tropics, pose a black and white plague, a genetic monopoly threatening our ability to adapt to future, unpredictable change.

'The consequence is that livestock keepers in Africa are rapidly changing the genotypes of their animals by adopting exotic types that are perceived to be more productive.

'This has the possible consequence of eroding adaptive genotypes that are equally useful in establishing a livestock sector that is robust to the conditions of life - especially climate change and the associated change of disease burdens.

'The combination of intensive selection and the use of techniques like artificial insemination have made it possible to produce large populations of genetically similar, high-performing animals of the same breed, but at the expense of their genetic diversity.

'European breeds are now facing extinction.

'The intensive selection of Boran and Tuli cattle from Zambia and Zimbabwe in Australia is just one example of genetic manipulation. In this case embryos from these African cattle were taken for cross-breeding into Australian breeds without permission. The commercial gain for Australia has been estimated at $800 million per annum.

'Australia has been selling the crossbreeds and embryos on the international market, in particular to Argentina but Zimbabwe and Zambia have received nothing in return.'

I'd say that's pretty typical Nicky.

I shall provide you with the links in another "thread." This will assist towards keeping Pericles occupied while he frenetically googles for hours in a bid to add to his ad hominems. I sincerely trust he's on medication for his stratospheric cholesterol.

And it appears that intensive farming (The Livestock Revolution) of gifted animals has also taken off in Africa:

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS/news_veggie/ALL/660/

Toodle pip.