Hi all

Dickie, there is ample evidence of the damage importing "exotic" animals does to delicate eco-systems, even in Australia, who delicate balance was actually ideal for marsupials and the wildlife we have - until along came farmers and multitudes of cloven hooved animals, which have all but destroyed any number of natural habitats.

And why am I not surprised about the Holstein cattle (or the story about the embryos of the African cattle and where the money went (or in this case didn't go).

Poor Pericles. I still don't think you can get around the sheer illogicality of importing countless "gift" animals when there is no feed, infrastructure of veterinary care for them. What will happen to "Kevina" as her milk productivity wanes? She'll be hacked to death with machetes, I guess. But so what.

Send in proper, sustainable plant based food, medical supplies, and contraception.

Nicky

Hi all

Dickie, there is ample evidence of the damage importing "exotic" animals does to delicate eco-systems, even in Australia, whose delicate balance was actually ideal for marsupials and the wildlife we have - until along came farmers and multitudes of cloven hooved animals, which have all but destroyed any number of natural habitats.

And why am I not surprised about the Holstein cattle (or the story about the embryos of the African cattle and where the money went (or in this case didn't go).

Poor Pericles. I still don't think you can get around the sheer illogicality of importing countless "gift" animals when there is no feed, infrastructure of veterinary care for them. What will happen to "Kevina" as her milk productivity wanes? She'll be hacked to death with machetes, I guess. But so what.

Send in proper, sustainable plant based food, medical supplies, and contraception.

Nicky

What a patronizing pair of SIFs you are, Nicky and dickie, to be sure.

>>Poor Pericles. I still don't think you can get around the sheer illogicality of importing countless "gift" animals when there is no feed, infrastructure of veterinary care for them. What will happen to "Kevina" as her milk productivity wanes? She'll be hacked to death with machetes, I guess. But so what.<<

What I can't get my head around is the sheer illogicality of objecting to a charity donation that a) saves lives and b) provides a livelihood for starving Africans.

There is indeed sufficient feed, infrastructure and veterinary care, otherwise there wouldn't be sufficient profit in the venture to educate the guy's six kids.

There is also, if you care to look, a - local - programme of IVF that ensures continuity of the business.

And I am not naive enough to assume that Kevina will spend her twilight years in some kind of moo-cow old folks home. Far from being "hacked to death with machetes" though, I suspect that she will be humanely put to death, and provide the family with wholesome beefy substances for a good few meals.

You do your idealistic cause to turn the world into vegans no good at all, by leaning back in your comfy armchairs and poking complaints at a programme that i) alleviates hunger and ii) provides a livelihood for destitute Africans.

I suggest that instead of dealing in fatuous generalities like "proper, sustainable plant based food, medical supplies, and contraception.", you devise a plan that is as practical, useful and effective as this one.

Complaining about somebody else actually making an effort, simply because it offends your idealistic soul, is not convincing.

And if Bill puts his money into this programme, you can bet your last red cent that he has weighed up the pros and cons as carefully as any human being on the planet.

Trust me on this.

Pericles

Be it Bill or Daisy Africa Australia or ME the point is there is no need send send animals alive!

If you want to help these people then first inforce contraception and if they show enough resonsibilty to use it then give a voucher for FROZEN meat that has been slaughtered as close as possible to its place of origen and veggies.

The point you always seem to miss is animals suffer and feel pain as much as people and often far more.

There is no need for Bill or anybody else to be so cruel and insular.

Did you say Africa have proper vet care and conditions?
Perdon me while I cough.

We followed the sheep from the cormo. They had sercurity block the area for three miles sounding.

Even then people walking to work held their hands over their noses.

Bill is simply cashing in on the big bucks made from baqrbaric treatement of Animals which is totally unnessary.

Shame on anybody who supports intensive farming or live exports wherever they are and who ever they are.

We are not veggies but fully support the rSPCAs demands for the cruel insensive farms to be replaced with free range and live exports to be faxed to chilled exports only.

I can certainly applaud your motives, PALE&IF, there is indeed suffering involved. Some human. Some animal.

In this particular case however, I think you have picked on a reasonably defensible target.

>>If you want to help these people then first inforce contraception<<

That's silly. Procreation was, last time I looked, legal. Especially in areas where life can be, as Thomas Hobbes put it so elegantly, "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short". Their daily survival is often pretty much a lottery, you know.

>>give a voucher for FROZEN meat that has been slaughtered as close as possible to its place of origen<<

In these days of worrying about carbon footprints, transporting long distances is very much frowned upon. You also need to look at the raw transport costs - sea freight prices have escalated significantly in the last few months, and are unlikely to come down again any time soon.

Economically, it has to make sense to transport the live, productive animal, in a manner that allows her to be of more-than-carcass value to its destination family.

>>Did you say Africa have proper vet care and conditions? Perdon me while I cough<<

No, I said "sufficient feed, infrastructure and veterinary care". My rationale, because I haven't actually seen it first hand, is that these would be a prerequisite for our friend Sezibwa to have made a sufficient living from the production and sale of Kevina's milk, to send six children to school.

>>Bill is simply cashing in on the big bucks made from baqrbaric treatement of Animals<<

Of all the people to accuse of "cashing in", Bill Gates has to be a long way down the list of suspects.

Has anybody seen any evidence which shows that live transport of animals is involved in this project?

The stuff I saw talked about AI on local cows. Unless the bulls are shipped to Africa that approach should not need any live transport. My assumption would be that you could ship a lot of chilled/frozen sperm for the same cost as shipping the bull. Bringing the sperm from other locations would provide access to a far greater range of genetic material than shipping a number of bulls as well.

Am I missing something here?

R0bert