i did not say tha steel

i said i would except a lady preist and male to marry

but no to male to male

and i did not say gays are pedophiles

no doubt their would be some in the gat community that we would never know about

just woundering steel are you and col rouge in contact with each other it strange as i had a go at col rouge for a previoys post in the child abuse section

if two men want to mary so be it if thats what they want

i carn't stop it

also i did not say all gays are pedophiles ,

i said cardinal pell should mary them as he is a pedophile protector as proven a few weeks ago

like it or lump it

im not here to argue with you about crap that is going to be put on crap
sorry you feel the way you do

gays are gays their is nothing you nore i can do about it each to their own ,

regards huffnpuff

Foxy,

There is nothing wrong with different opinions. Why not agree to disagree?

I have observed a very straight talking Catholic ask self identifying Catholics who reject the religion why they don't call themselves a protestant or an atheist. This was met with accusations that he was trying to boot out people who disagreed with him. Thus, being vulnerable to the same reaction, I quoted the atheist sociologist to raise an issue I am curious about.

I am aware that some atheists and secularised Catholics are uncomfortable with public expression of Christian values. Apparently it feels like forcing the view on the society that you feel is owned by atheists/secularised Catholics. Likewise, when an atheist or hard to recognise Catholic tells the Church to align with worldly values it feels like you are forcing your values upon us.

Thus it would be easier to hear your arguments if you were easier to recognise and perhaps your perspective can assist.

The Christian family is very broad. Whilst there are subtle differences in doctrine and some unique Catholic practices or liturgy there is huge similarity. The glaring difference is that Protestants are Christians who reject the Pope as an authoritative teacher of Christian doctrine. I recall your comment that the Dalai Lama's teachings make more sense to you than the Pope. I have inferred that you do not consider the Pope authoritative. How do you differentiate between a Catholic and a Protestant?

In spite of the broadness of the family if there is something called "a Christian" there must be some common characteristics such as believing the Bible is the Word of God or believing that Jesus died on the Cross and was resurrected. I have encountered writings from self identifying Catholics who consider themselves Christians but consider Jesus to be a good Jewish man who is essentially a hippy social worker and product of his time. I believe (and am open to correction) that you don't consider the Bible authoritative and subscribe to the Jesus went off and got married type theories. What to you defines a Christian?

Dear mjpb,

You ask what to me defines a Christian?
I don't know why you're persisting with
this line of discussion. My personal
beliefs shouldn't have a relevance to this
topic.

I'll keep it simple. Christians are people who believe
in God and the power of His victory in Christ.
Who believe in a Resurrection that rescued man from
death. Who believe in an Easter that opened man to hope.
Who believe in a life that lingers after this.

Who believe in understanding, in forgiveness, in mercy, in
faith.

And finally,to paraphrase the words of Father James Kavanaugh,
" I am a Catholic, and shall be a Catholic
who follows her conscience, demands meaning and relevance
from her Church, and will not allow my God to be reduced to
empty ritual and all-absorbing law."

Actually, Catholic priests can be married.

My best friend lives in a Parish when the Catholic priest is married and lives with his wife and children. Prior to being a Catholic priest, he was an Anglican priest, married with children. He converted, and is now a practicing Catholic priest with his own Catholic Parish.

Surprise, surprise-samsung are you religious too? Is this why you made this statement in the "Pushing a political wheelbarrow?" thread
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2010#41612

samsung, "Seeing anything in life as unalterable fact, shows a mind that is not open."

Thanks Foxy. I explained why I was asking. You keep calling him Father James Kavanaugh. Does he still go by the title "Father"? Hopefully the history of his apparent admission to dating while still a priest didn't influence his viewpoint on celibacy.

I appreciate that you shared your Christian concept. I note that you earlier quoted Collins stating that:

"Our culture has long moved from Hellenistic concepts such as omnipotence, eternity, immutability and the supernatural...

Qualified by the spin "... a shift of emphasis does not imply the 'abandonment' or jettisoning of something. It simply means we have already integrated the past. Today history and human experience are the norms we use to understand our human predicament and metaphysics is relegated to the background."

Yet your own understanding of Christians seems based on the concept of (presumably omnipotent) God, a Resurrection that rescued man from
death (presumably a supernatural event), and a life that lingers after this (presumably for eternity) rather than jettisoning I mean integrating these things and thinking in terms of his norms. I agree with you and like your definition but I struggle with his viewpoint which seems contradictory or perhaps I have "integrated" it friends, Roman Catholics, and countrypeople