I find it amazing on this blog, how you women use all these arguments such as

'It is not 'lovely' of him, it is a method of making you dependant.
'
Great stuff. All men really just want to enslave their wives.

' Believe me most would rather pay.'
Most men don't want to see their kids and would pay money not to see them.

') mothers do whether in a relationship or not and whether working or not, that fathers just dont think twice about. '
Men don't appreciate all these things that mothers do, and are so selfish they wouldn't do themselves.

And it's the women banging on about me whining. Pot, say hello to kettle. My post at Monday, 30 June 2008 5:18:46 is a very accurate depiction of the attitudes women have. They truely are the unappreciated down-trodden martyrs of society.

I think, because men don't directly, emotionally, care for the family while they are at work, their role as breadwinner is seen by women as self serving in some way. Women's role is conversely altruistic and selfless. Men are hated for being 'absent' in this, and unappreciative of her efforts, and cold, for taking leave from the emotional feel good stuff to earn the family money.

For myself, and all the men who I know who have wives and children, we greatly appreciate the role our wives play. But I don't believe this is fully reciprocated, and it ilustrates a blinkered view women have.The reality it is they that don't appreciate the traditional male contribution to family. They see it as cheap and easy. Ironically, it's the women who generally complain though, and as seen here shout down men who don't accept this women as matyrs view of the world.

It appears from this forum, a womans work is never done, and never appreciated, and a man is a whinging whiner if he doesn't just accept the one sided view I have explained above.

Usual Suspect, it may be bias I've got a lot of respect for Yvonne built up over a long period but you may be intepreting her comments based on assumptions that don't actually reflect where she is coming from. She is one of those posters who does try and see both sides of the issue. In this instance she is putting the other side of the discussion but please don't get so tied up in the fight aspect that you forget the dialog.

As a single dad who wanted shared care and ended up with full time care I didn't really enjoy the comments about men prefering to pay than care but I've also been around enough to know that in some cases dad's just don't take responsibility for their kids. Time caring for their kids is seen as a favour to the ex or a burden rather than part of life.

I have no idea what the numbers are like, it's another one of those discussions where spin clouds the issue. Few dads will admit that they don't take responsibility and few mums will admit that they play maternal gatekeepers or live off their kids.

R0bert

That's why I posted this blog, which I requested that CountryGal read.

http://gonzman.blogspot.com/2004/01/where-are-real-men.html

Perhaps those men have had their children abducted from them by either the wife or the courts, R0bert.

Steel,

That's a pretty one-sided, corny parody of what I hear from the women on this blog. I'm more interested in neither side spouting this kind of crap. Articles like that have been accepted as fact, or legimitimate validation for all the downtrodden martyrs of society. It shames me men have sunk to the same level.

It sounds a bit like Country Gal's

' There are a lot of things that (mostly) mothers do whether in a relationship or not and whether working or not, that fathers just dont think twice about. I take my kids to the doctor when sick, and to the hospital for immunisations and I see precious few fathers there (total count so far = none). All this comes at a price for the mother, and if the relationship fails the father gets to feel a little of the price too. Mate, dont bitch at me about how hard done by men are unless you've sat up with your kids everytime they are sick and still got your workload for the week done, as well as the cleaning, washing and something on for dinner.'

But, as I said in my last post. Your blog entry IS whining, but Country Gals' and Yvonne's post somehow aren't.

Robert,

Very level headed as usual.

'may be intepreting her comments based on assumptions that don't actually reflect where she is coming from.'

Seriously, did you read her last post? I think it was pretty clear cut where she was coming from.

Excuse me, but I am looking from a macro-political perspective here. Men's rights are being infringed on a regular basis in law-making, policy and enforcement. Feminism is the cause and it's reflected in our political system. We have:

A Federal Office for Women
a Federal Minster for Women's Interests

This imbalance is *severely* sexist and beginning to infringe on a multitude of male rights and interests. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact.