Opinions are like belly buttons, we all have one. But have you ever stopped and wondered what they're about?

Now belly buttons do nothing but take up space. Unfortunately, some opinions do too. But what also happens when we express is that we share ourselves with others. So when I write I try to say it clearly and politely.

I've noticed that Online Opinion is a bit of a boy's club. GROW UP!

Now that said, let's get back to the job at hand which is sharing. So if you have something useful or beneficial to say, say it. And if not, don't.

Dear Haralambos,

The problem is that we all like to be listened to, admired, and have our opinions validated by others. It's a human trait. There's also subjects that we feel strongly about - like politics, sport, religion,
various causes, these can cause emotions to run high.

And, when we're criticized, belittled, abased, and our opinions are devalued - that sparks begin to fly.

But on the other side of the coin - how dull and boring would it be if we all agreed - especially on a Forum such as this.

Haralambos

'I've noticed that Online Opinion is a bit of a boy's club. GROW UP! ' If it was a girls club you would not be able to put a limit on the words or the number of posts. The male would also rarely have the last say! Now that is unfair and sexist!

OH god an opinion piece about opinion,

There is nothing wrong about opinions
the only thing wrong is when ones opinion rates higher than anothers , or the domineeering opinion seeks silence any discent

Yes there is a boys club [because some people are threatend by opinions that vary from their own] ,
that lobby groups become a pack [a boys club] of which you make note orv worse paid lobby or comercial blogging ,where one is paid to keep their own opinions up [while destracting or rebutting other differeing opinions].

It would be petty to name names , because many with firm and hard opinions usually use more that one id ,
or they are trying to look like the topic has much intrest but its just one bigot or spin meister playing their games.

I didnt think an opinion piece on opinions would raise this much reply,out of me but as i have been attacked and banned from many forums by being the duifferent [solo] voice of discent, i think we know a good piece if it has many divergent opinions.

Sadly i have an opinion on many topics ,thus allways feel stired to take an opposing stance [just to rebut for the sake of balance ] or other ego reason [i havnt bothered to test which].

Generally i hate opinions [as much as blind belief] ,i feel our beliefs must be able to be explained and reasonably be defendable with fact and logic
, personally i try to put up my opinion only if i feel it might help in some small way to expand the knowledge base [or lack of knowledge any ones opinion is biased upon.

Well thats my opinion

"I've noticed that Online Opinion is a bit of a boy's club. GROW UP!"

That is something you had no real need to share with anyone.

I suggest if you cannot handle the heat, don't hang around the kitchen

or maybe the BBQ if we are being precise about the "Boys".

Haralambos,

I know where you're coming from after the domestic slaves and birthing machines topic, and I haven't seen much improvement in your topics since.

If you decide the general reaction to your opinions somehow illustrates a 'Mans Club', then maybe you would be better suited to a feminist forum where you will be supported and agreed with in your hatred of all things male, and your belief that the world isn't fair and we are all just drones controlled by capitalism and the patriarchy.

I do not see any sign of a boys club on OLO actually. Both genders equally provide well reasoned and articulate opinions. Both genders are pretty good at holding their own. Sure, things can get a bit heated but that is good- it is wonderful to see freedom of speech in action.

It is really important to not take other posters comments personally. If you are someone who is a sensitive soul and who really feels the sting of other peoples words then perhaps reconsider other means of putting your opinions forward. However, on the most part, contributers to OLO are a pretty good lot and can be remarkably compassionate and kind at times.

'So when I write I try to say it clearly and politely. '

'GROW UP!'

Hmmm.

With 6 out of 10 people [apperently ] growing out [not up]
[presuming the adults posting here ] to be allready grown up as much as they are physiclly can.

[perhaps we should understand we are as 'grownup' as we are ever likely to become?

then perhaps better facts would help us
to then move on with facts that not opinions ,
as facts cant change , but opinions can be changed

that more fact not more opinion just might help them mature in their faith that underpins their fixated faith in opinion ,and scews their logic into futile debate about what is at best only their opinion?

Haralambos

This topic raises further important questions like: Is one opinion better than another? And if so, why?

Answers turn on the distinction between an idle opinion and an informed opinion. Or between informed opinion and prejudice. Or between a tentative opinion and one which is refined over time.

An opinion is an assessment or judgement about a matter, however callow or however well-informed. An opinion based on rational assessment of the key facts is not only more helpful (to the holder and to others how listen to that opinion). It is also likely in some cases to be converted to something better than opinion if the facts on which it is based are shown to be valid. We all act on opinions (ours and those we influence) every day - and so do politicians and other power brokers - so the more informed that opinion the better the outcome should be.

In debate some people start from a preferred position and merely surround themselves with other similar opinions and countenance only the evidence that supports and solidifies their position. Other people genuinely come to an issue with an open mind and are willing to be swayed by observation and analysis of the facts.

OLO has many more of the first type than the second.

OLO posters vary in their ability to identify different types of opinion. Take these three questions:

- Do some people think Muslims are inferior? This is matter of fact which we can test by asking people what they think. It has no bearing on whether Muslims are inferior.

- Should Muslims be kept in an inferior position to Christians? This is a matter of the values we hold and an assessment of the perceived consequences one way or the other.

- Can you ever be sure about what is right? This is a logically complex question like: 'Are faith and reason opposed to each other?' or 'Is political democracy compatible with economic free markets?

People will form and share opinions on all three. But each type requires different types of analysis.

Dear Haralambos,

I can't remember who said, "It's better to let people think you're a fool, than to speak and confirm it!"

I understand the point you're making on this thread.

Most of us tend to react - and jump right in - with our 'two cents worth.'

But perhaps that's healthy? Or as Dorothy Parker said,

"But now I know the things I know,
And do the things I do;
And if you do not like me so,
To hell, my love, with you!"

Sorry but in my opinion the post inferring we are a boys club and need to grow up is both wrong and rude.
I note those who are unhappy with us are new to the site.
Just relax read and form your opinions about us based on understanding such sites are much the same.
I am sure some of our very best posters are women.
No club exists.
And maybe something else is behind the post?

oneundergod - i'll explain why you have been chucked out of so many forums for expressing your opinion.

Because your opinion is wrong.

Hi one under god,

I also like to offer my opinion when I think its needed. Sometimes I might go in to bat for the underdog. Othertimes, I may want to raise something that's been buried. But I won't ridicule or put-down another.

Col Rouge,

Previously I've ignored your comments.

Hi Spikey,

Yes, most on OLO are sheep. Mind you, I like sheep, but they can not think for themselves.

Good question by the way: "Is one opinion better than another? And if so, why?" Been thinking about this one for quite some time. Essentially, no. For no matter how articulate, logical, and sound an opinion is it is just an opinion. What I'm saying is that only when it is given value (i.e. good or bad, logical or not and so on) does it become so. Nevertheless, opinions are important. Did not Martin Luther King express his beautifully when he said "I have a dream".

I don't think we should take OLO too seriously. It is just a small part of our lives - something to do in a spare moment or two.

OLO provides an opportunity to voice an opinion about a variety of topics and sometimes our opinion will be in the minority or the majority.

Sometimes the posters you might ordinarily be in agreement won't be on other issues.

This is just life. We all like to express opinions and OLO provides a forum to do it and perhaps, if any minders are reading, might just have an effect on policy makers.

(ha ha):)

Simply put if someone is rude they can easily be ignored or hold your own and forge an opposing view.

Haralambos "Col Rouge,

Previously I've ignored your comments."

It is the wisest thing to do when you are obviously boxing above your weight class.

Alternatively, I could simply suggest,

"phone someone who cares".

Happily contributing to many debates, just watch me.

Haralambos

Your opinion that one opinion is not better than another may be true for OLO and other down-market blogs.

But would you extend this to, say, George Bush's opinion that Saddam Hussein had a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction while others had the contrary opinion?

How about my opinion that all religions are bunkum as compared to Mr BOAZ's opinion that only non-Christian religions are bunkum?

The problem with holding the view that one opinion is as good as another (in my opinion) is that people get to act on their opinions. And can wreak havoc in people's lives.

Your hero, Martin Luther King, was murdered because he had an opinion (a dream) and people had the opinion that his opinion was a threat to their position of power and that he should not be allowed to have that opinion.

In my opinion, their opinion was inferior to King's opinion.

Opinions based on ignorance and prejudice (and there are plenty on OLO) are clearly inferior to opinions based on research, wide reading, logical thinking and thoughtful reflection.

I wish there were more of the latter on OLO. It would be more interesting and intellectually challenging. Alas...

Haralambos- you state "Yes, most on OLO are sheep. Mind you, I like sheep, but they can not think for themselves."

Now why in the world did you have to go and say that? That is no way to make friends and influence people is it? Unless of course you are trying to get the OLO community off side. In which case, just keep it up.

Baaaa- Baaaa! That is sheep talk for "I am quite able to think for myself thank you very much. And don't you ever forget it."

I like that,sheep accusing sheep of being sheep.What will the Kiwis say?They have more sheeps than people but are they smarter than Helen Clarke?
Everyone has an opinion within their terms of reference which is connected to their experiences.Opinion means nothing,unless you've toiled at the anvil of life,no matter how smart you think you are.

Dear Haralambos,

I also don't think that this Forum is a "boy's club."

Sure there is a lot of interaction amongst us but that's to be expected. There is a substantial number of posters with a shared interest in some issue on which there are differing opinions. However there are as many posters as there are issues. Because not everyone is interested in the same topic, or is aware of a particular issue. The Forum expands or contracts as more posters gain or lose interest in the topic.

Some posters of the Forum may think and feel alike, but they are individuals, and although they may agree on one topic, they may disagree on another.

I feel that opinions and viewpoints are sifted through other people,
be they family, friends, workmates, or posters on this Forum. Opinions are not made in a vacuum. They're made in the context of our existing cultural and personal preconceptions.

Foxy,

You seem to have missed my point again. I do not want constant agreement. I want the idiots to grow up. And, unless its some men using women's names, then its females who also buy into this sexist status quo.

Now I do agree with you about personal and cultural preconceptions. Nevertheless, I believe we can rise above them.

Think of it like this. The whole is made of many parts. But of course, each part is unique, a one off. What this therefore means is that each and every one of us not only can, but does stand apart.

In other words, our preconceived values only continue because we allow them to.

Haralambos - I tend to think your 'sheep' comment was more than a tad arrogant. Many people writing on OLO are there to voice their opinions. Rarely do they just agree and act like 'sheep' and when they do, it is more likely to be because they genuinely agree or they have seen the merit in an argument and have been persuaded. I think this is more much more admirable than those who refuse to listen to anything which might ruffle their preconceptions.

For instance, I'll say I think pelican and Tammyjo have expressed things very well in this thread. Does this make me a mere sheep?

I'd challenge you to point me to a single example where posters are indeed just behaving like 'sheep.' You have your opinion, fine. But if you want it to have value, back it up.

I also reject that it's a boys club. Yes, some male posters make a plethora of comments. But that doesn't make their comments any better. On the flip side, if indeed, their comments are of decent quality, then hell, they should be encouraged.

As far as the quality of debate goes, yes, it sometimes leaves something to be desired, but it's still better than most forums.

If you really want to see the bottom of the barrel or the height of stupidity, go and look at the comments on any given youtube video. It's a pretty persuasive argument in favour of 'lowest common denominator' theories.

Haralambos “Yes, most on OLO are sheep. Mind you, I like sheep, but they can not think for themselves.”

Haralambos “Now I do agree with you about personal and cultural preconceptions. Nevertheless, I believe we can rise above them.”

Maybe you should try practicing what you seem to be preaching and rise above your personal and cultural preconceptions.

Btw the notion of an opinion being like belly button –

the way I heard it, an opinion was like a fundamental orifice and much of what you seem to be preaching has the characteristics with what comes out of a fundamental orifice.

Dear Haralambos,

You said we can rise above our preconceived values...that they only continue because we allow them to?

I think it's more complicated than that.

Values change over time...today we question the meaning of "progress."
And new problems posed by science and technology ...(pollution of the environment). There is less insistence today on the value of conformity and certainly less emphasis on group superiority.

Self-fulfillment has been gaining ground as a 'new value.'
It would be quite foreign to many cultures - even discouraged, where obligations to kin, work, and community are assigned more priority.

Our values change as our societies change - However, some of us are not capable of changing. Some people are set in their ways and for whatever reason - change is not part of their psyche.
That is the point that I was trying to make. We're all individuals.
And our opinions reflect this. Right or wrong. Some people are not capable of rising above their preconceived values and perceptions.
And that's a fact!

I would add that change in itself is not necessarily desirable. It's also the definition of arrogance to assume you are right and others have to 'grow up' or be enlightend and come around to your world view.

I fully agree with Usual Suspect.

So I've composed a short ditty:

"You have an opinion,
Which you think is true.
I have an opinion,
Which doesn't agree with you.

You think yours is better,
And, you may be right.
However we're both wise enough,
To think, instead of fight."