There are a number of ways that society condones murder, and suicide is one of them. Capital punishment, and deaths during wartime are others. In my opinion, none of these should ever take place. Now I'm not religious, and I don't always think life is sacred. For instance, women have the right to control their own bodies, and if they choose to abort, that is up to them.

With suicide, we have a complicated situation. I don't think anyone really wants to die. Euthanasia is different. But with suicide, the person who has most likely reached the end of their tether is totally and utterly desperate. To some degree, it might be a cry for help. Overall, it is most likely born of extreme alienation and marginalization. Once again, no one wants to die.

What I want to raise here is certainly unpleasant and very sad. I know from my own experiences with depression and anxiety that society, meaning our families, friends, schools, work, the whole lot, sets up the conditions for death to take place. Its a sad inditement on us all. Stats show that one in five will experience depression, and that Australia has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. This should not be happening, anywhere.

My concern is that most people don't know much about depression, or other mental illnesses, or don't care. I will even take this further and say that whilst the individual pulls the trigger, society loads and holds the gun.

>"and I don't always think life is sacred. For instance, women have the right to control their own bodies, and if they choose to abort, that is up to them.

>With suicide, we have a complicated situation......This should not be happening, anywhere"

That about says all you need to know about this hypocrite.

"Once again, no one wants to die."

That is the arrogance of one who genralises for other people. My mother said she wanted to die after she had to go to a nursing home. I believe she was completely sincere in her desire. How can anybody possibly know what all people want?

Well.. I can only offer something positive here, though I do understand that it may not be met with the enthusiasm with which I offer it.

Haralambos said:

<<I know from my own experiences with depression and anxiety that society, meaning our families, friends, schools, work, the whole lot, sets up the conditions for death to take place.>>

Indeed. So, without meaning to be simplistic or trite, I invite Hara to consider the following:

<< Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.>> Romans 5:1-5

This is the Christian experience.

Paul, the man who was the man 'most likely NOT to become a believer in Christ wrote that.

<<For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.>> Galatians 1:13ff

<<circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church, as to the Law, blameless >> Philippians 3:5ff

Please no-one feel offended here.. I am just offering, putting forward.. not 'telling'.

haralamblos, i find it difficult to accept that society condones suicide though I do agree that some aspects of society are to blame, particularly conforming to ideals- happy family with a big house, new car, private schools, boats and the like. Now there is nothing wrong with having any of these, but if the pursuit of such ends in failure the emotional ramifications can be significant. Even if we "have it all" depression can occur.

The causes of depression are many, genetic prediposition, personality type,hormone disorders, tragedy to name but a few. What society doesn't always see are the individuals symptoms, and often they can only be seen in hindsight. I think suicide candidates are the worrying sort who really need to share their problems, but don't so as not to worry others. The act of suicide the call for help that they didn't verbalise. How we overcome that is by doing exactly what you've done in making depression/mental disorders a topic of open discussion, in order to remove associated stigma.

david f, I think H was clear when he said euthanasia was not what he was talking about, and I'd suggest that your mother would prefer to not get to that nursing home stage any sooner than she had to. I do agree with you that people should have the choice when and where to end their lives, and I'm sure you'd agree that no one should have to end their lives due to external pressures. Overt or otherwise.

Dear Rojo,

Suicide due to a momentary fit of depression should be countered.

Otherwise I think one's life is one's own to do with, as one will.

You wrote: "I do agree with you that people should have the choice when and where to end their lives, and I'm sure you'd agree that no one should have to end their lives due to external pressures. Overt or otherwise."

I don't agree. If one evaluates one's life and makes the decision that it would be better to die than to continue living I don't see a thing wrong with suicide. One of the factors that can go into the decision is external pressures. They can be poverty, disease, alienation etc.

The prohibition against suicide is the result of the Christian influence on our society. Originally Christianity did not ban suicide. There were seven suicides in the Bible, most notably in Matthew 27:3, the suicide of Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus. Christianity set up the prospect of an afterlife. It was a common superstition in the milieu in which Christianity arose. Following logically from this belief some Christians wanted to fast track the afterlife. The most notable pro-suicide group was the Donatists, who believed that by killing themselves they could attain martyrdom and go to heaven. They jumped off cliffs, burned themselves in large numbers, and stopped travellers, either offering to pay them or threatening them with death to encourage them to kill the Donatist would-be martyr. They were eventually declared heretics.

The result of Donatist actions was voluntarily to rid the world of religious nuts. However, the church fathers realised that Christianity would not thrive if Christians eliminated themselves. Implicitly they made the political decision to ban suicide.

In the fifth century, St. Augustine wrote the book The City of God, in it making Christianity's first overall condemnation of suicide. His biblical justification for this was the interpretation of the commandment, "thou shalt not kill", and the rest of his reasons were from Plato's "Phaedra". In the sixth century, suicide became a religious sin and secular crime.