IamJoseph,

Thank you for an interesting reply.

So, you are saying that prior to the creation of our universe and man,there were other beings living in a spiritual realm. It is to those beings, in an inclusive, manner God speaks. Moreover, said beings are God's agents in the Creation. "Us" as applied in Genesis, in the Jewish faith, does not apply to the Trinity or other godheads.

Grammar requires syntax. Syntax requires causality. Causality requires time. Time is a dimension of our universe, created about 13 billion years ago. Herein,the implication is the realm of angels, includes the time dimension, also, perhaps, even a realm of four dimensional space-time like ourselves. Is that how you would see it?

Yet, cosmology would claim that the universe [heavens] were created before humanity. Our sun, Sol, is a "third" generation star.

Moreover, astrophysics would have Our Time arising from Planck Time in the very infant universe. In parallel [not yet unified] Quantum Mechanics would have, observed determinacy collapsing infinite indeterminacy.

At the CERN Large Hadron Collider, scientists plan to re-create the conditions at the first trillion of second of the Creation. Possibly, in August, this year. These researchers wish to understand how matter gains its mass [Higgs Bason].

Perhaps, in a few decades, with upgrades, the Laboratory will be able to replicate The Creation.

The first generation of the Collider produces seven trillion electron volts of power concentrated on a proto-atomic scale, still too small to produce a black hole or singularity. Herein, these scientists wont destroy the Earth, i.e, warp space-time and implode the planet, as some have predicted.

- Would humankind being made in God’s image extend to human science creating an other universe? Given colliders, say, having orders of magnitude times greater powerful than CERN, later this century?

Boazy,

Where are you? You haven’t attempted the questions posed

Rainbows:

An interesting challenge, friend.

The Epics of Gilgamesh & Atrahasis mention a great flood. The Babylonian and Akkadian accounts would I suspect predate the Hebrew. But all three flood "accounts" are aspoused after Sumer.

Noah presents pre-Sumer:

There were Garden Cultures between 12,000 BCE and 4,000 BCE. Someone, like Noah, presumably would have lived closer to the establishment of city-states, as capacity craft an Ark would not have existed, until communities were very settled.

Yet, this time would predate the iron age, which might make the production of tools capable of building a large boat, problematic.On the other hand, if the adamah of the flood is local, the alleged Ark, would not need to have been ocean worthy.

If the [river] flood occurred, say, 6,000 BCE, one needs to establish how the account survived thousans of years from that time until the Akkadians, and, thence, the Hebrews.

The phenomenon of the spectrum did exist before the abovementioned Garden Cultures, even, before the Earth was created. Astronomers commonly analyse the sprecta from stars billions of years old.

Just the same, I will try to find some form an account of a rainbow prior to 6,000 BCE, i,e., 8,000 BP. It will hard, because writing was probably developed from Summarian accounting systems, after the period we are examining.

"Time is a dimension of our universe, created about 13 billion years ago. Herein,the implication is the realm of angels, includes the time dimension, also, perhaps, even a realm of four dimensional space-time like ourselves. Is that how you would see it?"

I find genesis hedy heavy - meaning we have not reached the vocab to understand this chapter as yet, and this is reasonable considering the issue it deals with. We are currently still manourvering in dimensions, and know nothing of our origins or the origins of anything whatsoever on any level.

The issue of heaven is a case in point, and must be deliberated before one speaks of other beings: is 'the heavens' referring to the galaxies - or a non-corporial dimension; why does genesis posit 'the heavens' as a counter-part to the earth? We know there are no other beings in the known universe, by the probability factor, as opposed the possibility premise. The heavens are followed by 'and the earth' - is this a corporeal physicality, or just earth of this planet?

IMHO, there is no life outside earth [the maths; an actual survey of one part of the universe; and the absence of life on earth for 5B years and 13 B years in this neck of the uni - says so; this renders genesis a vindicated scientific treatise w/o equal today]; we are it [else why does Genesis say 'go have dominion of all the worlds']; and thus one can make their own impression of what these heavenly beings are - I see them as non-corporeal.

However, the other life forms [animals, etc] are also inclusive in the 'US': all animal rights laws come from the OT, which again renders this document different in kind than degree - namely it is vested firmly in the big pic and not political sub-plots. Genesis first declared the universe is finite in its opening preamble - namely that it had a BEGINNING. This is the most mysterious document in humanity's history, and not fully realised yet. Its way ahead of the status quo.

"There were Garden Cultures between 12,000 BCE and 4,000 BCE. "

If this is true, there should be no problem of a 'NAME' pre-6000, which genesis posits is the date of the first speech endowed human? A name evidences speech endowed modern humans and their history, and does not even require writings, being subject to recollection, as with a folk song or cultural tradition.

But despite all the C14 postulations of relics, we have not a single NAME pre-6000, nor a king, a war, a nation, a writ with a date - in fact we have no history per se pre-6000. Is this a freak co-incidence with genesis? My understanding says, we should have 100s of 1000s of names, all over the planet. This issue is so vital for humanity, that it cannot be relied on academic lab de-constructionism; it should have in our face proof before being entertained - and thus far, we do not have this. All of this planet's history, population grads and mental prowess elevations allign only with Genesis. How come?

IamJoseph,

I would not concede to Bishop Ussher's 4,004 BCE claim. Yet, that date would appoximate the establishment of cities such as, Ur. The Garden Cultures were possibly a socetietal reaction to climate change. Nomads would have a lesser need to create permanent records than quasi-agricultural kin. Nonetheless, I will try to find something very ancient on rainbows and names in the early neolithic period. Catch is that were I to find say name prior to the Shang Dynasty in China, it would likely be regarded folk lore or questionable, as pre-literate by definition did not keep records. Jericho & Damascus are ancient. Will check for names there.

Boazy,

You have unresolved issues here. Please return.

" Catch is that were I to find say name prior to the Shang Dynasty in China, it would likely be regarded folk lore or questionable, as pre-literate by definition did not keep records. Jericho & Damascus are ancient. Will check for names there."

True, only the required proof is justified. Many claims of pre-6000 are totally bogus. China is old, but not that old. Basically, I have found the 6000 date to vindicate itself of all its claims, and the opponents and all their meagre counter evidence inadequate and unreliable.

If this position turns out correct, then it will render genesis a mysterious document, having made very bold claims with specific dates to the year, in the world's first advanced grammar and alphabetical books. This possibility, or premise, has not been adequately acknowledged.

My research also shows that Medicine comes from the OT, with the first seperation of this science faculty from occultism. This was with the ID, treatment and quarantine of leprosy victims - introducing the first claim of malignancies, infectious and contagious deseases. Prior to this, the victims were seen as accursed.