Re. "That's why I find it better to be neutral."

This can be a great crime also. One who witnesses his fellowman's innocent blood and remains idle, does not constitute a neutrality, but a fleeing from truth. An example:

Two years ago, there was a global rage over danish cartoons and a statement made by the Pope - which the muslims saw as a disrespect of their religion, and went on to murder nuns and destroy many christian structures. But no one took the muslims to task for their horrific anti-semtisim pervasive in muslim countries today, specially not Europe, who invented such false charges as blood libels, the Protocols, Jews drinking children's blood, etc - shamelessly shown on islamic TV and schools today as history. And not a whimper from European cristians and the so-called good muslim majority.

These falsehoods are paraded throughout the muslim world as true historical factors: so where is the Islamic respect for other religions? The Pope should be held responsible for silence here, as these false stories came from the vatican's own backyard in medevial Europe, and responsible for the deaths of 1000s of innocent peoples. Here, silence is not golden; here, both European christianity and islam show no fear of God and impudently foster anti-semitism, each believing they will win salvation and 70 vestal virgins - even when they foster total and evil falsehoods. But they may be surprised what really awaits them. Because:

'A FALSEHOOD AND THE HOLD ONE CANNOT ABIDE TOGETHER'

We saw also, the destruction of the Biddha relics by Muslim talibans in Afghanistan, their reason being the structures were pagan. But what about the pyramids, which is the worst example of paganism: while Buddha professed peace, the Pharoah claimed himself falsely divine and enslaved nations.

The so-called Muslim fervor for religious destruction appears very hipocritical - specially concerning the nation of india, which has been so generous to Muslims, giving them two states for naught, even after Muslims massecred over 7 million Hindus and persecuted them for many centuries. So silence or being neutral is a double edged coin: what if you were wring and others seeing this remained neutral? All great attrocities occur when others remain silent. Please re-consider.

'YOU SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE'[Moses]

Hey,

I'll have a crack at some interpretation if I may.

When Jesus is said to have uttered the words "Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." he hadn't been crucified yet so the cross had little of the potency to his disciples and other followers that it gained post-crucifixion.

We have two choices on how we view the conundrum this presents.

We can say the chapter clearly states he described the manner of his death; it obviously had to include the fact that he was to be crucified, to the gathered throng.

Or far more likely, and in the best Jewish 'Midrashic' technique that is so obvious throughout much of the bible, the narrative was embellished and strengthened in order to deify Jesus.

To be able to display Jesus’ prophetic skills would have been of great value to his followers in their cult’s struggle with the mainstream Jews after the fall of Jerusalem.

Later Gospel's threw in a virgin birth among other things to cement their claim of Messiah/god status for Jesus.

This is by far the most logical interpretation one can make of the text but logic fears to tread where religion rules.

Ultimately the respect one has of Jesus also has to acknowledge the deep skills of the Gospel writers whose powerful story telling has elevated the man far higher than I get the sense he may have been comfortable with.

But the simple explanation is not possible for those who so desperately need the nurturing and comfort the narrative delivers. While Steel might well deny the right of followers to the reasoning afforded by interpretation, those of us who are not caught up in this belief system probably need to think about what we potential deny others by attacking it too strongly.

Therefore our interpretations are not so much about the validity of historical stories but more about the choices we have made about how we view the world. The issue becomes how much respect we are prepared to afford each others world views.

Boazy,

There are many different styles in the Bible written by different people for various purposes at different times.

Jesus reportedly spoke in Aramacic, but much of tenet of his manner of speech is Greek, His turn of phrases. Not surprising he grew-up in an area occupied by the Greeks for long time [300 years]. If educated, He may have spoken Attic Greek.

I have lost contact with a friend, who is a SDA pastor, whom for his post-grad. thought that at times Jesus used humour, as a pneumonic, via exaggeration [like MAD magazine]: e.g., the “Log” in one's eye. The vision of a large log, being absurd, so, the story would be remembered.

Daniel [OT] and Revelation [NT] adopt a similar style though presumably written over a thousand years apart:

Relatedly, Paul is alleged to have been on Patmos c.95 CE, Paul could borrow Apocalyptic style from Daniel, his template for battle across the Euphrates from Titus [c.70 CE], at time [C. 95, remember], when the Jewish Eschaton was predicted for 100 CE [4,000 on the Jewish calendar. The Annas' had won favour with Romans over the Herodians, and the Herodians had bunked-in with the idumaeans. It's a neat fit.

The Dead Seas scrolls are important because they would have been unknown to the Council of Nicaea. They contain knowledge on the Bible, Romans [ e.g., The Kittim were Roman warriors from the West, who captured Jerusalem] and religious groups: e.g., the Essenes.

How to Interpret Texts- Religious and Secular? We look at what these docuements say and try to verify or falsify each from external.
sources.

Scrolls were meant to be read from beginning to end. Codexes for cross-referencing. Did first & second century NT gospels appear on condexes with the OT? I don't know, but think it is a valid question.

Peace and happiness.

O.

the thought about how_to_understand the_holy-texts ,so-much depends upon knowing the-rules of the-people at the-time of the-story ,like casting-pearl before swine-[the-unclean],or casting seed-[wisdom]amoung the brambles-[trying-to-help-the-self-confounded].

Take the_writings of the four-deciples [who all noted according-to what-they-expected jesus to=be not_what_he is] ,

jesus said all we need to do is 'love god' , 'love neighbour'.. [the new test-i-meant]

jesus said so much wisdom ,but to see a god made flesh ,is to deney we_are_all sons/daughters of god the life-giver ,

indeed to miss the big one
that we all die
AND are all reborn again

[but only by knowing the jew believes in a grand reserection DAY]
but that jesus [as a jew ] died but was born again ,
as indeed we_all_are 'born again ,into the after-being

[but his_own missed the revelation]

[but no-doudt could repeat every_movement and_word he-spoke to initiate the 'neo' new-messiah- ritual]

Same with the 'miricle' of the whine-from-the-hand-wash-water-jugs

[where jesus clearly reveals 'it is not yet my time'
[he in-fact takes it further

[its not my problem ie'i dont care if you give them the-hand-washing water']
[as any jew would know that-is the-highest insult]

Then we come to the feeding of 4000 then 5000 when his diciples missed the REAL meaning ,[any jew will tell you 'if i cant wash my hands i refuse to eat; being unclean'']

thus 'feeding 100,000 jews 'all they wished to eat ' isnt no miricle ,its just fact
[they [his-own] wont eat with 'unclean' hands]

the parrable reveals how fixated-his-own are on-ritual ,
thus missing_god-the living-loving-good-all together

[note-next page , his_deciples eating [without-washing-their-hands]

jesus says

'it is not what a man puts in to his mouth that makes him unclean
[but the blashemy [against the living loving god ]
that ''comes out'' of their mouths

[ie only-honouring god with-their-lips]
[ie-adulterating gods_[good]_word'sss]

please_note
-the Quran/koran preceeds every_verse with-a-certain pre-condition :

''in the name of god ,the '' MERCY_FULL and COMPASSIONATE '']

that-allows only those-in gods-good to know;

'what is good in every verse'
alone
comes-from_god ,

[thus-as jesus_said
even-a-beast knows-its masters-[good/god]-voice]

A neutral can not be touched by heaven or hell. I stay out of the fight between them. My entity is safe as long as I don't believe!

Its a trap! There is a third choice. Stay here on earth and become what you will. As soon as you believe, you have signed a contract!

Don't say I didnt warn you.

SMILE! Have a nice day.

EVO