Goodall of orang-utans" and the world's foremost authority on these great apes. At Camp Leakey, the orang-utans are gradually acclimatised to the jungle, and as they get closer to complete independence, they are able to come and go as they please. While walking through the camp with Galdikas, my informant was suddenly seized by a large male orang-utan, his intentions made obvious by his erect penis. Fighting off so powerful an animal was not an option, but Galdikas called to her companion not to be concerned, because the orang-utan would not harm her, and adding, as further reassurance, that "they have a very small penis." As it happened, the orang-utan lost interest before penetration took place, but the aspect of the story that struck me most forcefully was that in the eyes of someone who has lived much of her life with orang-utans, to be seen by one of them as an object of sexual interest is not a cause for shock or horror. The potential violence of the orang-utan's come-on may have been disturbing, but the fact that it was an orang-utan making the advances was not. That may be because Galdikas understands very well that we are animals, indeed more specifically, we are great apes. This does not make sex across the species barrier normal, or natural, whatever those much-misused words may mean, but it does imply that it ceases to be an offence to our status and dignity as human beings.

NicknDick will now pretend to not understand the ramifications of constructing a moral and legal system around the inane premise that humans do not have a special place in the world order. Denying that humans have moral autonomy just like animals who also do not have moral autonomy will formalise the treating of humans like animals.

Another obtuse assertion of ALs equates killing with cruelty. Clearly they are not the same. Think of the movements around the world to legalise euthanasia. Methods of killing my be cruel but I am not confident that ALs will make distinctions.

If one were to compare an athletic Rodeo Bull with human athletes one would immediately recognise that relatively high levels of pain are common in sporting competitions.

Boxing, full contact Karate, Thai Kick Boxing, all versions of football including soccer involve varying levels of pain etc etc etc. My daughter frequently deals with ankle pain when playing netball but she loves to play so never misses a game.

Again, how do ALs & the likes of NicksnDicks know that the Bulls do not enjoy Rodeoing? There is no evidence to prove that the Bulls dislike the activity so they assert that the Bull can simply not enjoy performing in a Rodeo because pain is involved.

The undeniable fact is that pain is part of life. I experience pain many times a day and have adapted to my arthritic neck, hands and feet.

If the Bulls do experience pain on what scale is the pain? I can not see how the pain associated with the straps would be significant.

MyOpinion, good to see some rational comments -- would you be aware of any who exhibit what mental health professionals call projection? This involves unconsciously projecting one's own unacceptable feelings onto other people so that one doesn't have to own them.

In some cases, these intolerable feelings are projected not onto a person, but onto an inanimate object or a sport. Psychologists assert that Projection is a defence mechanism. Defence mechanisms are unconscious psychological mechanisms that protect such individuals from feelings that they cannot consciously accept.

They operate without normal levels of awareness, so that they don't have to deal consciously with "forbidden" feelings and impulses. Projection is a particularly an insidious defence mechanism, because it not only prevents a person from dealing with his/her own feelings, it also creates a world where he/she perceives everyone else as directing his/her own hostile feelings back at him/her.

How did you like the musings of Singer? Dangerous? Delusional? Unbalanced? Creepy? Irrational? Sickening?

Oh rational arguments don't mean anything to this lot. I read this on site the other day and thought it was hilarious so I've copied it here. My sentiments exactly!

I've always said that if you scratch the surface of a rabid vegan, you'll be certain to find a religious nutcase micrometers below the surface. Now, thanks to the heavily delusional freaks at PETA, we no longer need to do that.

Last Monday, I had to go into Providence, RI for what would prove to be the very worst job interview I've ever had. So bad was it, that I nearly got up and left halfway through. All the signs and stumbling blocks that the universe as a whole had tossed before me said not to even bother going. But for the only reason of an exciting ride, flying into the face of certain oblivion on the bare back of sheer stupidity, I went. I knew what I was in for, but I also had many years of prior experience that told me some reward would have to be reaped, if I returned whole. And while it was a small reward, it was worth it.

The compensation was simply, a double billboard.
As you are driving along Route 93, going into Providence, watch the billboards. You will eventually see a ridiculous white guy, badly dressed up to look like Charleton Heston's interpretation of Moses in "The Ten Commandments" or an anorexic Zeus. To his right, in big bold white on red letters was the phrase "I SAID 'THOU SHALL NOT KILL'". Below that, a URL for Peta.

I couldn't believe my eyes.

To be continued below …………….

continued............

I turned around just to verify what I had seen. Unfortunately, we had passed it. But on the other side, was yet another surreal visage. This one featured a young (possibly six), blue-eyed, blond haired girl, hands folded together looking mournfully upwards. Next to her in even bigger letters was the phrase "DEAR GOD, PLEASE SAVE AMERICA."

I knew then that this was to be a strange and terrible journey indeed.

I won't bore you with the details. I'll just say that two kids, ages seven and three, who've been sucking down caffeine since 9:15 and who are stuck in the same car as you can quickly make you understand quite a lot. Mostly, they'll make you understand the mindset of people like Susan Smith, when she intentionally drove her car and two kids into the John D. Long Lake in SC, October of 1994.

Which is where we come back to the Peta Billboard. Thanks to Peta, I decided that consumption of a double cheeseburger made from the tender meat of a calf that was force-fed, while it labored to stand in it's own festering waste within a cramped crate, as the rancher evilly injected it with all sorts of vile, unnatural chemicals, was a good idea. Yes, this would be far more beneficial to all parties.

So tonight, I had a chance to look over their web site, and have come to the following conclusions:

1. PETA has a great propaganda machine. So good that it would make Joseph Goebbels hang his head in shame.

2. In all probability, most hardcore members of PETA harbor Bestiality desires. They look forward to the day when they can live in a world where their fantasies of shagging a goat is as legal and common as inter-alien relationships on Star Trek, instead of icky coitus with members of their own species.

So as Easter approaches, make yourself a nice pot of Rabbit stew, and enjoy this fine site from PETA!

Hi all

I have been off the air for a few days with a shocking flu, and I am quite sickened by the tone this thread has taken. Myopinion and Cowboy Joe, you are indeed sick people. Is there something wrong with a pure love for animals of all species that does not involve sexualization? Is there something wrong with despising cruelty, be it rodeos. farming practices, zoos and circuses?

You can criticize PETA, Ingrid Newkirk and Peter Singer all you like, but I would rather be upholding their kind of morality than yours.

Nicky

That’s an interesting comment, define “pure love”.

“You can criticize PETA, Ingrid Newkirk and Peter Singer all you like, but I would rather be upholding their kind of morality than yours.”

You can guarantee that I will continue to criticize them. Of course you’ll support them, you’re another rabid nutcase and that’s why I’ll criticize your comments as well if I disagree with them and let’s face it I haven’t seen many yet that I agree with.