CONT'D -

Jesus- Son of Joseph, a descendant of King David through the Nathan line, and of Mary. Jesus was conceived during his parents' betrothal period before their legal marriage, so was regarded by the party of Hebrews as an extranuptial son of Joseph. He was born in March, 7 BC.
For Hellenists in the ascetic movement, he was the legitimate David, and would rule when the Kingdom came, either as an independent king, or as a subordinate of the Herods.

In AD 29 he joined with the Twelve Apostles, Hellenists, to oppose John the Baptist, who held the doctrine of Hebrews. But Jesus introduced entirely new doctrines, claiming to be able himself to fill the position of high priest, as well as king. Thus he taught the priesthood of all believers, and also the free admission of all members, including Gentiles, without hierarchical grading on the grounds of birth, race, sex or physical condition. He was opposed by all parties working for Jewish supremacy, and was called by them the 'Wicked (Anti-) Priest' and 'Man of a Lie.'

Jesus was crucified through a political stratagem, on the grounds that he was technically an associate of zealots. He was given poison on the cross to end his sufferings, but merely lost consciousness, and was helped to revive by his friends.

He remained with the pro-Gentile party in its successive forms, guiding its leaders, John Mark, then Peter, then Paul.

In AD 61 Jesus led his party to Rome, where they established a separate mission to Gentiles, no longer attempting to make them Jews.
He was still alive in AD 64, and his death is not recorded.

Foxy - I'm waiting for the Cont....bit so wanna just pop this in:

I'm fascinated by the information regarding a legal betrothal between Mary and Joseph. I had always thought that no primary texts supporting the family side of Jesus' life were available? I would like to read more about this - can you suggest any source material (remembering it would have to be on-line: the availability of books in English here being so limited).

cheers,

Friends,
God is man's creation.Therefore god cannot be held responsible for what is happening on earth.Let us forget god for ever and think of man and his numerous problems.Let not god be a cause for disturbance of peace on earth.
People without self confidence seek solace from the nonexisting god.If society becomes good, with all the physical needs satisfied, the importance for god will autamatically go.It is the misery of man that keeps the god concept alive.
Ezhil.

Finally! A ray of light. See! it wasn't hard. Commonsense is only blessed by the few. Easy OLO and the gang. lol. When I used the word "blessed" as a metaphor. Just joking!

Iam not here too knock anyone's beliefs, more the value of the subject. You can stand and whaling at a wall, or you can mold something out of clay and set your self on fire, just as long as you are happy. But when it starts effecting the worlds moving on,s, "Just type in "shocking" and watch the content" you will see my point.

Religion is just not working anymore, but if we brought the worlds population under control, we would see a world of difference.

50 years! And the clock is ticking.

P\S I used to believe in god.

EVO

Hi All,

Thank you for your contributions. I tied up with some work involving the media for a few days and look forward re-joining you soon. Deadline.

Dear Foxy, I see the Thiering histography in your contribution. The idea of the alterative dating would valid Herod being around when Jesus was born. Thank you for the book recommendation. I have read Theiring's "Jesus of the Apocalype" Her account of Helli-Joseph-Jesus-James influenced my question five. [alternative Philo's]

There seems to be some jockeying for power between the Herodians and the Ananus' 5-20 CE. If the Davanic dynasty was responsible for ministry to the Gentiles [a low class than ethnic Jew, if converted], then it would seem logical a Herods now having less Rome, would deliver Jesus or a Davanic claimant to the House of David, to Caiaphas. Pilate under Tiberius would be trying to avoid a Jewish up-rising [wjich happened anyhow].

Jesus, I suspect, would be trying to distance himself from the Zealots. Had Jesus said, "render all unto god", Pilate would "not" have washed his hands. Jesus would have been saying he was a King of Religion and a King of a State. Rome would never have allowed that statement.

Hello Philo, appreciate your contribution. I look forward especially to researching your account of James the Elder who I had [erroroneously?} associated with a James Niceta son of Zebedee. The alternative account is claimed to come from the Clementine Recognitions and Homolies. [Robertson & Donaldson, 1875 in Theiring 1995] I need to do some homework.

Steel,

My Answer:
I believe the Bible is made up of two distinct books one [OT] about prophesy and one [NT] about fulfilment. Fulfulment to a Christian being the substitutioary randsom of the Son to the Father for the sins of Humankind. Perhaps with a special emphasis on original sin and the first commandment.

The OT is futuristic and takes the Hebrews from Nomadic life under YHVH to their promised land. YHVH was a tribal volano [Volcanus] god. Moses had the hard of job holding his subjects back from moving too quickly towards an agricultural god, the calf. I belief the aforesaid merely subsists, as a foundation to Jewish and Christain Faiths. Islam would recognise Abraham and Moses as prophets.

The NT is about a Messiah and substitutionary random [Jesus as The Christ. The NT's God, unlike the OT, is a God of love.

I lean towards Jesus being persecuted by the Jews generally for elevating the status of the Gentiles and by Jewish power groups for his claim to House of David. I do believe there was an historical Jesus. His divinity a creation of others.

Moreover, the ousia of the OT & NT godheads are different. The godhead was not ratified in Latin Church, until the Council of Constantinople (381). This is very confusing to the Researcher. For me, events seem more political than theological.

The attributes of the gods of Abraham, Moses and Apostles/Paul are very different. Over the centuries accretions appear to be added and become doctrine. Yet, all micmic several other religions of their various times.

The Words in the Bible were written a generation and generations beyond The First Generation Verbal Lore after Jesus' crucifition. The stories spread, to various locations, each of which had its own spin.
ambitions, and, as such, have high value to humankind.

-cont-