Dear Oliver,

To answer (or at least try) your final question,"Would James have a stronger claim on the Davanic throne than Jesus? Given James'
legitimate birth."

As Jesus was of the line of David through Joseph, and as the Essenes intended to restore a David king - whether for full monarchy without Herod or in a more spiritual kind of kingship under Herod - the question of whether Jesus was legitimately conceived was a crucial one. From the strict point of view he was an extranuptial child of Joseph, and could not inherit. This was the view taken by the more eastern element, including Pharisees. Their name for Jesus was "the Man of a Lie," referring both to his teachings, heretical from their point of view, and to his illegitimacy.

But from another point of view, a more liberal one, he was legitimate.
He had been conceived following a ceremony in June, 8 BC, at which his parents were finally bound to each other in betrothal. As Jesus was conceived under a form of betrothal that could not be broken, his supporters held that he was a true heir.

But the question was to pursue him for the whole of his life, and was the issue around which hostility to him could focus.

For some he was the Bastard: for others a king-Messiah who could be even more than a king.

Again, Thank You for an interesting thread Oliver.

I thoroughly enjoyed myself. Just one more thing - you mentioned in an
earlier post to me that you didn't think that God would need to do a
"draft" because He's omnipotent. I think He enjoys experimentation -
and could possibly indulge in "drafts," same as the rest of us - when
we're being "creative." Afterall aren't we supposed to be made in
His image?

Take care.

Dear Oly
you are asking us to enter the mind of the Almighty and make value judgements on Him.

We cannot do this.

You are also seeking to base this questioning/value judgement on.. events which are very distant from us historically, for which there is only scant scientific/archelogical etc information.

You are asking the impossible.

Romans 9 ..the whole chapter.

blessings.

Interesting! "God made man in the image of him-self". Hey people! Had a look at peoples behavior around the world lately? ( religious being the balanced ones)

Yeah right! I can see god in everyone of them. lol.

How silly of me. And it would have nothing to do with overpopulation.
( The big picture )

Have a nice day,

EVO

1. How do you "explain" the existence of God?
The nature of the Universe expresses the creativirty of God. All things have purpose only in a spiritual sense.

2. Why did god allow the Pre-Cambrian Extinction?

The natural universe is subject to natural principles of change and decay.

3. Given a loving god, why is the insect kingdom so cruel?

All living creatures kill living things to survive.

4. How was Jesus born with Mary's hymen intact?

Salome who attended the birth of Jesus reported the virginity of Mary.

5. Would James have a stronger claim on the Davanic throne than Jesus, given James’ legitimate birth?

Mary was chosen as the one to give birth to the Messiah. She was a temple trained virgin. Mary had no relationship to James. James was the eldest son of Joseph by a previous wife. He is spoken in the early Church as James the Elder. Joseph had no genetic relationship to Jesus, and in fact his family line were considered to be cursed.

Phil i personally like the simplicity of your reply
is it from swedenberg?
he eludiates that there are 3 meanings in the holy texts
the natural [the spiritual] and the celestial meanings

that the old testiment should be read in the spiritual representation that the word is able to realise ,as well as the natural meaning [that the inner [celestial] isnt able to be grasped in human terms]

any way im impressed with your study[even to the point of reading some of your past posts]

some thoughts that come to mind [i should have written them down] was your comment on the four directions [i possably missed the main point of it , though i did try to track it back]
but to me up and down are directions as much as n/e/s/and west are [so my directions are 6] ok ,a nothing point in hind sight ,but couldnt post it at refereanced site

Would like to tackle some other questions arising from these above postings
[re did god write the bible[of course not] ,did he inspire it [yes], was it conveyed to man[yes] is it falable [of course] did the stuff in it really happen [not all of it] [but much did] was it sent to decieve [no]is it of higher worth that god [NO ! put nothing before god]

[thats where the jews constantly get god wrong, they put idols ,rite and ritual [the word and the messengers before god][ie dead things before the living god]

Dear Oliver,

I thought that you may be interested in what Barbara Thiering, "Jesus The Man," has to say about James and Jesus. Professor Thiering began teaching at the University of Sydney in 1967, joining the School of Divinity in 1976, and lectured in Old Testament, and Hebrew Theology.
Her studies led to the Dead Sea Scrolls and a 20 year research project
which produced remarkable findings and ended in the publication of her book in 1992.

She writes, "James, the younger brother of Jesus, born AD 1. James was conceived in wedlock, so for the Hebrews he was legitimate David.
When Hellenists were in power, James was prepared to act as successor to Jesus, so was called 'Joseph." But under the Hebrews he would be the David, so was called "Jacob" (James), the name for the David king when with the Herods. For Jewish Christians, who finally accepted Jesus as the Lord (Priest and Pope), James was the David, so was called "Jacob" by them.

James was also called "Absalom" by his critics, who regarded him as the treacherous heir of David. James held that Gentiles should become
proselytes; they should not be circumcised but should keep aspects of the ritual law and obey Jewish priests. On this point he was opposed by Paul, who allowed Gentiles to abandon Jewish identity.

James was stoned to death in AD 62 on the order of the high priest Ananus the Younger.

cont'd ...