Ive been living in a state of mild apprehension the last year or two.
I tried to analyse it and had difficulty...then it struck me.
Its to do with the governments. They arent doing their jobs.
I read newspapers, and I go on the net and I talk to people and the "come back" is that nothing seems to be fuctioning properly. Billions are being spend and we are still going backwards.
I looked at the 2020 Summit and felt really uncomfortable.
Alexander Downer says something like "it was only a left-wing gabfest". Was it too elitist?
It felt insincere. It looked it.
Words...talk...talk talk...but no real heart for the poor in our cities and or those in the bush. Theres great need out there too. The farmers feed us but we knock them and miserably fail to support them.
Some of the things that have eroded my faith in governments...
1. the constant fighting in parliaments,
2. the constant spin when politicians are confronted with their failures,
3. the slow failing of rail systems, buses, ferries (in Sydney),
4. never enough police,
5. lack of censorship on pornography (sex crime all over the place and no one confronts the truth but the Christians),
The country seems to have no vision and the people mill here and there aimlessly. In the uncertainty... the people get drunk.
Is there an answer to the directionless and the apathy? Can we knuckle down and finalise the problems?
Kicking out the Monachy will only make it worse...the people more drifting.
Its got me perplexed other than to encourage prayer against the chaos.

OK you got me! I truly thought you to be just a fundamentalist nut but you are quite funny in fact.
You have pulled our legs and mine too no one could be so out of touch with reality and the real world.
or could they?

...then theres the hospitals Belly and the Darling/Murray River systems and dont get me started on Defence.
China builds flat out for a perceived conflict with the USA and this nation is mostly uprepared for any sudden change in the world military climate.
No citizens home guard defence force! No redirecting lazy, apathetic youth into national service.
The nation appears to me to be weighed down with ineptitude.

"Ive been living in a state of mild apprehension the last year or two. I tried to analyse it and had difficulty...then it struck me.
Its to do with the governments. They arent doing their jobs."

Gibo thats a possible explaination but it seems more likely to me that the problem comes in trying to live with a lot of beliefs which are in conflict with reality. So much of the stuff you've written about in your time on OLO is clearly false (and often easily proven to be false) that it must create a lot of turmoil trying to cling to those beliefs.

Thats a simpler and more credible explaination for the anxiety you feel. Your best option is to seek professional help.

Our governments generally don't do as well as we would like but trying to blame that for your anxiety is drawing a long bow.

R0bert

R0bert's right gibo, not that I expect you to take notice of actual evidence. Of course the world seems like a bad place, when you've decided that your prophecies tell you it is, then you discard any evidence to the contrary.

I do wonder why you bother on OLO, given that you're not actually willing to listen to evidence from other people, by your own admission. Seems to me you're not interested in discussion at all, rather, a soapbox upon which you can yell that we're caught in a storm, despite the fact that everyone else can see the sun shining.

Reality RObert is drastically changed when one confesses the sin and genuinely invites Jesus Christ into ones life. At this moment The Holy Spirit enters a persons body and things... are suddenly NEW. The Bible comes as TRUTH. Not just a history book. Now that you are born again in Christ...the power of Gods Word is your reality.
I noticed looking back down the years that Labor has been in power a lot during the decline. I would attribute this to few, if any, born again christians in Labor serving that particular politcial party. Just men and women without the Power of Gods Word in their lives.

Yeah Gibo I'd noticed how much you cared about gods word being the TRUTH after I posted some references to bible verses on the womens clothes thread (which you started) which tell you what Jesus said you should do if seeing something is causing you to sin. Given that you are still posting on OLO I assume that you've not been out and plucked out an eye or two.

You've not put a retraction on the thread admitting you got it wrong nor have you been back to explain what Jesus really meant and how that fits with your attempts to make your sin problem a means to control women's clothes choices.

Yep you obviously care a great deal about gods word. On the other hand you fundies do seem to take it pretty seriously when it's someone else who will pay the price. It's so very important when it's about a homosexual never being able to express romantic love or experience intimacy but not to be taken literally when it's about you paying the price.

R0bert

"China builds flat out for a perceived conflict with the USA and this nation is mostly uprepared for any sudden change in the world military climate."

Well, it's not just "perceived". The US won't give up its primacy without a fight. As for our preparation, what do you propose we do? Even if we militarised the entire nation, we could never even dent the Red Army in a dust-up. Our future in the region will rely on diplomacy and making ourselves indispensable to the Chinese, however humiliating that may feel.

Sancho. Having collected a number of visions and prophecies over the last 15 years or so I do believe an invader will make it here.
Thats over and around all we have in the defence cupboard as we have established to this date.
But I dont think we have to take it as laid-back as we do.
We could suppliment Army Reserve with a citizens input. I dont think anyone in Defence gave much thought to what happens when an invader actually lands on Australian soil and moves south. Defence seems designed more to stopping a movement into the immediate region.
Many older "citizen" guys are doing nothing much apart from just sitting around having cups of tea, eating a bit of cake, and letting the years and their experience drift by and away. They could be used as "citizens input" into a citizens home guard defence force. Most youngsters are doing nothing but eating McDonalds in front of computers and watching dvds and thinking about their own desires. They could be getting preparation for national service. We could decentralise folks under a federal government back-to-the-bush scheme and spread the people more out into the bush and stop the move into big city target zones.
I think the military have already conceded half of the nation, maybe more, to an future asian army if the world climate goes that way...if theres little or no protection from the USA. This doesnt have to be.
The federal government could give them the money and we could get on with the job of defending Australia.
We dont have to let China own us at a later date. We could be ready for them much more so.
Hi RObert. Id be happy if we just got on with the thread:)

Gibo, at any point in history, someone, somewhere was having a vision or receiving a prophecy which predicts anything you care to name. If you're having visions yourself, it suggests schizophrenia.

Schizophrenics usually draw real-world events into their schema, which is why you'll find a lot of patients currently in psych wards who believe that Arabs or the Chinese are about to end the world. During the Cold War, it was Russians, and when there's no war, the mafia and aliens step in as the bad guys.

I'm not trying to insult you, but please get some help. Modern antipsychotic treatments are very effective. Get some treatment and then re-evaluate your visions. If they still hold up, then fair enough, but I worry for you and your loved ones if you let this go unchecked.

Gibo if you want to keep the thread on a particular topic then you will have to stick to it yourself.

You introduced your mental health issues in the opening post as part of the justification for the thread.

You've attempted to respond to my comments about that point by refering to how much you believe in the TRUTH of gods word.

I've pointed out how truth seems to be rather flexible for you and how gods clear and direct word does not seem to be so important when the command is obviously hurtfull and applies to you.

If you don't want that stuff in the thread then don't introduce it and don't try to hide behind it as a safe zone.

Your particular interpretation of the bible and belief in obscure prophecies does not make reality or override truth.

R0bert

Dear Gibo,

You should not be in a state of apprehension regarding our country's
government. As a federal, parliamentary democracy, Australia's system of government is among the most coninuous and stable in the world. Our collective commitment to democracy is something that should be universally celebrated to a much greater extent than is currently the case.

In Australia we can take great pride in being world leaders in the democratic project. The continuing rise of democracy is based on the simple, universal and powerful truth that governments should ultimately be accountable to, ruled by and governed for the people.

Our democratic history can be traced back to the Ballarat Eureka uprising of 1854 and the granting of representative and responsible government to most of Australia's then colonies around that time.
Our democratic tradition was further confirmed at federation in 1901 where our Federal Constitution was agreed to peacefully and democratically by the Australian people by referendum, highly unusual at the time.

During the constitutional crisis of 1975 other countries might have collapsed if placed in a similar scenario, but Australians simply chose to refer their differences to the ballot box. It was the instinctively Australian and democratic thing to do. Disputes in Australia are settled by votes not violence. The noble creed of democracy is the first Australian political value that we should all acknowledge and celebrate. It is a creed that holds us together.

And look at what some recent governments have achieved. Gough Whitlam in his short term in office started Medibank - the precursor to Medicare, which is the basis of our health system by providing free or easily affordable health care for all citizens. He alsoended our involvement in the Vietnam War. Malcolm Fraser built on Medibank which evolved into Medicare - the health system we still use more than 30 years later. He was also the first PM to seriosuly address the issues of Indigenous Australians, and after leaving office has become very much an elder statesman, focusing much on human rights and poverty.

CONT'D...

Bob Hawke and his successor, Paul Keating made a huge amount of reform, changing Australia from a country "riding on the sheep's back" (an agricultural nation) and relying much on mining, to a country exporting goods and services all around the world.

They floated the Aussie dollar, which had been indexed against the US dollar, which freed up the trade market and brought major investors to the country. They also brought the unions under control, whilst still retaining a fair wages system across the nation.

One of Keating's last acts as PM was to sign a defence agreement with our biggest neighbour, Indonesia, and improve our country's relationship with that nation of more than 100 million people.

And so it goes on. Kevin Rudd although just newly elected has already
achieved so much. And will achieve even more.

So don't despair. Be happy. Because we really have been given so much in this country. It would be a sin to complain.

Well, I guess RObert I dont want to speak to you. Stop picking on the christians and I might.

Gibo RObert makes no claims, he may not even like me saying it, but he speaks for many of us.
You appear to need help my friend, your slant on Christianity is not mainstream.
No Christian myself I think of you in terms of a very consistent man 30 years ago who screamed at a bus load of early morning travelers his version of his God every morning.
He and you make few friends for God.
Do you understand if we are invaded by say New Zealand the out come is not assured?
If China invades we are outnumbered by such a huge number?
Say what you want about unions and the ALP how Gibo could anyone give your words value?
Holy water and visions?
Had a few in my youth long before the big white bear found Bundy I did but that is another story.

Gibo “No citizens home guard defence force!”

I am with Belly on this “you are quite funny in fact.
You have pulled our legs and mine too no one could be so out of touch with reality and the real world.”

And this is a hoot too “Having collected a number of visions and prophecies over the last 15 years or so I do believe an invader will make it here.”

Maybe his name will be Darth and he will sell us all into gay slavery, make a movies of it, Revence of the sodomites.

Thanks Gibo, I like this thread. I could have some fun here.

Some of our brethren appear concerned for your health. Not me. My philosophy you are free to be a dingbat as long as you leave me to be a ? ? ? ? (insert whatever invective suits your frame of mind).

As for government, all government. Expect less than nothing for the taxes they pay and you will be happier than pretending any of them or those who support big government will do anything to help anyone, except for proclaiming faux-compassion and false promises to get elected to sup from the communal trough.

Gibo: << Ive been living in a state of mild apprehension >>

More like full-blown paranoia, I reckon - with schizophrenic ideation to boot.

"Stop picking on the christians" - see Gibo again your analysis is wrong. I give extremists a hard time but have not real concerns with christains who show respect for others (eg Foxy). I've stuck up for christains when I think they are being unfairly judged. I even supported Philo in the face of your nasty attacks on him and his faith.

It's not picking on christains, it's extremism and hypocracy I'm fighting and you represent both.

You and your fundy mates seem to be quite happy coming on here saying all sorts of nasty things about those who don't share your beliefs or your disfunctional "morals". You pick on those who support freedom of speech and choice. You make all sorts of false claims and then you don't want to talk when challenged.

R0bert

RObert, Belly, is just one of a number of as yet non-born againers who just want to persue christians on this site.
Youre one too Belly. CJ and Col. I take it pretty lightly because its the way I used to be before I asked Jesus into my life. It doesnt faze my Christianity. God in me is stronger. You really ought to stay away from that Labor party too. The very same powers that got the old Red stuff going are still at work in both Labor and the unions. They just changed their thinking when the Berlin Wall went down and Russia openned up. They still manipulate Labor today towards ungodliness. I expect Labor will soon support the gay push for more rights allowing and assisting another generation over to the immorality of the homosexual/lesbian lifestyle. We know political parties by what they do. And I do not like their dance with China. Deep down inside this dance is another thing ...a traitorous thing I believe...a dark thing for the future. All because they are open to the spirit powers that started it all. Its all connected in the invisibility of the demon activity that carries on in the spirit world. I dont really expect Labor to last more than one season. They have a tradition of going inept. Look at the States? Doomed to corruption and inefficiency.

Gibo “Belly, is just one of a number of as yet non-born againers who just want to persue christians on this site.
Youre one too Belly. CJ and Col.”

Wrong Gibo. I do not “pursue Christians”, if I did BOAZ would have cause to complain.

I do however, delight in revealing the inane and stupid.

In many ways I am like the boy who told the truth about the “kings new clothes”.

I am pleased you find strength in God, lets face it we all need something, I too believe, I just endeavour to express it a slightly different way (Mozart was, so God must be).

I suggest you consider this.

You can do what you want, believe what suits you and be the best and at what you do. That is what we can each, as individuals, do to improve the world. By simply worrying we add nothing and worse, define ourselves by the questions we offer up for discussion.

Gibo, I'd concur with R0bert, though I suspect that as I've presetned you with facts in the past which conflict with your carefully constructed idea of reality, you've censored me out, as you're now censoring out R0bert, and anyone you deem a risk to maintaining your ignorant facade.

You say your opponents are picking on Christians. Have you yourself considered how rude it is to say outright that you've no interest in facts, statistics or figures that anyone else puts forward, because you just don't believe it if it disagrees with you, the underlying assumption being that you must automatically be right?

I'd define that as the height of arrogance, but hey. Don't let that stop you from posting more hysterical rantings, then refusing to hear any information that proves your paranoid fantasies wrong.

Well, how about we get back to the thread.
Its about Inept Governments. I would like to see some suggestions as to possible solutions?
I gave testimony here on OLO over quite sometime about the things I knew about.
There are part of my life experience testimony.
I told it like it was as my eyes saw it and I heard.
If I dont jump at your many allegations you will understand.
Lets get on with the show.
Inept Governments!
Did you hear the story about how Brisbane almost ran out of flour a couple of years ago and how flour had to be urgently, quielty, trucked up from southern States lest there be no bread in the Brisbane shops. Can anyone confirm?

"Well, how about we get back to the thread. Its about Inept Governments."

"I gave testimony here on OLO over quite sometime about the things I knew about. There are part of my life experience testimony. I told it like it was as my eyes saw it and I heard. If I dont jump at your many allegations you will understand."

Flying saucers, asian invaders, penticostal pastors laying hands on someone being more effective than psychologists, women needing to dress to suit Gibo, claiming porn increasing sexual violence regardless of what the stats say, etc, etc, etc.

"If I dont jump at your many allegations you will understand."

That about sums it up.

R0bert

Gibo if you can not Handel others opinions maybe you should not give yours.
You and I would have little contact if you stopped constantly killing threads.
In threads about the needed direction of conservative party's in Australia, unions future directions, you come in and make statements that end the thread.
A dreamer searching for a dream home found you claiming one town was inhabited by demons!
You could never understand your red neck description of unions and Labor as communists is not just silly it is idiotic!
Your thread proposes all governments are wrong but if one ever acts as you wish?
I would plot to over throw it.
While I am not a Christian I was bought up in a family of them , you know do you that Kevin Rudd is one?
Your version of mans crutch God tells you not to judge yet you do in every post.

Back on course boys...

The thing is Gibo that you don't get to decide just how and what everybody else will think and say dispite your fondest wishes.

The issue of being on topic has some relevance but given that you introduced a variety of themes in your posts that is really a judgement call as to their relevance. Just because you want certain assumptions to remain unchallenged does not mean that they remain unchallenged.

If you want the topic to be based on your own experiences and evaluation of those experiences then you can expect to have your judgement challenged. I don't feel compelled to dance to the tune and timing which you call but do consider it important to ensure that you numerous attacks on things outside the church are challenged.

If you actually want to have a discussion about inept government prove that they are genuinely inept. Prove that the issues you raise are real and not just manifestations of your own strange beliefs. Back it up with evidence.

If I started a thread expressing my views about the charismatic church and the level of hypocracy and ethical/financial and sexual immorality amongst pastors and adherants but failed to provide any independant evidence which supported my views would you feel compelled to accept my assumptions and have the discussion on my terms?

R0bert

PS: Belly. If you can talk about the glories of Labor and the unions surely under "free speech" I can talk about their evils, as I perceive them, as a christian with knowledge of the spirit world. That town youre talking about was Glen Innes, NSW and it is known far and wide amongst the committed christians that there has for decades been a strong witchcraft group there in charge of setting up the occult Celtic Festival, even one ex-mayor was involved in the occult.
That little town is a centre for dark powers and every year they turn up to the Celtic Festival in the form of clairvoyants, card readers and other dark persons doing witchcraft things... and oppress the local christians with their occult, gay abandon. The christians of that one small town have long been persecuted by the warlocks and the witches...and they feel that persecution from the dark side of the spirit world.
If we honour free speech I can say (mostly) what I want connecting it to other threads and correcting you young boys about spirit things as I go. Stiff upper lip young chap.

Gibo “Celtic Festival in the form of clairvoyants, card readers and other dark persons doing witchcraft things”

I do not support of believe in clairvoyants or witches. My reason is simple, they exploit the fearful and gullible for their own personal profit, an action which my personal standards finds unacceptable. Unlike the Church of Rome who sees them as a competition to the papal right to exploit the fearful and gullible for their own profit.

If you believe in demonic possession, the occult and necromancy then all I can assume is you count among the fearful and gullible and, maybe not so strangely, your posts tend to confirm that.

Gibo my true honest concern for your wellbeing are extended.
If you look past your biases you will see while I am committed to both legs of my movement I often find fault there.
Now and again from within my movement a voice will come that I think is wrong, always I make it clear that voice does not speak for me.
Find me a thread not about politics or unions that saw me introduce one or the other to.
Find any thread you took part in that does not see you introduce religion.
Your trying to put this thread back on track shows you understand you can not control others thoughts.
Young fellows? not me mate but age, any age young or old is no proof of understanding or the worth of thoughts and ideas.
You are judged by your printed words not your own views of your self
Gibo.

"On track" indeed.

Gibo: << That little town is a centre for dark powers and every year they turn up to the Celtic Festival in the form of clairvoyants, card readers and other dark persons doing witchcraft things... and oppress the local christians with their occult, gay abandon. The christians of that one small town have long been persecuted by the warlocks and the witches...and they feel that persecution from the dark side of the spirit world. >>

I live an hour or so's drive from Glen Innes, which is a truly delightful town in the New England Tablelands. The Celtic Festival celebrates the area's cultural links via the predominantly Scottish ancestry of its first European settlers, and is a successful tourism intitative for the town.

Strangely, I've never heard anybody from Glen complaining of "persecution from the dark side of the spirit world". In fact, the only times I ever encounter such deranged twaddle are in this forum.

If it wasn't generally so amusing, it'd be quite sad really. And Gibo, some of us here really aren't all that young.

I haven't had a chance to read what everybody has said but I have been trying to tell people for years that the problem with the system is that there is no effective or fair process of complaint handling so problems never get fixed up, they just kept problems hidden away. By the time the issue explodes the matter is so big that everybody throws up their hands.

The complaint administrative process is set up to deal with the person who complains and not the complaint. We need a royal commission into Complaint Handling as the process is used to ignore, cover up and deny. This process works to discredit those who complain and therefore nothing in the system changes.

Education - Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/
Our children deserve better

CJ Morgan, it's obvious that if christains are being persecuted that there has been a massive cover up. Why are our major news media not covering the horror of those witches and warlocks burning christains at the stake for their beliefs, the evil of the torture being inflicted on them in attempts to get them to recant their beliefs.

Hang it's the other mob that do that stuff isn't it. At a guess the persecution is simply that they exist and maybe that they have taken advantage of the changed climate that allows them to express their faith without direct and severe consequences as a result.

Who persecutes who? A brief think about history should answer that one.

R0bert

What we have here Gibo is a pack of party iets who only believe what they are told and cannot think forthemselves.

They know there is corruption and we live in a political dictatorship but as long as their party wins they dont care.

We have peodophiles within parties, corruption the heiner affair and i am still waiting for a reply from rudd, but i doubt that he will take me to court for defamation as he knows it will take the labor and the unions down.

But will have to wait and see.

Those who dont stand and fight get things like labor selling of public assets and removing jobs.
Incompetence with schools, so many teachers going on strike for better wages from the incompetent state government.

maybe we should charge the states or unions for childcare.

Incompetence with housing, instead of building more they sell it from under those who need it most.

Thinking of themselves and the party instead of working for the people.

We should take our representatives to court for fraud.
So the blinkers are on those who dont have what it takes to make a stand due to not being wanted to be expelled from their dictatorship.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent

Gibo, I'm a little confused here -

Not long ago, you began a thread entitled "I really loved John Howard."

Rudd has not been in power long enough to really change the government from the inside out, and you've given no examples as to what it really is that you object to from this administration, as opposed to Howard's regime.

So... if you think we have inept government, why were you so enamoured with the previous leader?

More importantly, how can you now judge we have an inept government, when you previously liked the leader?

What exactly is it that is so inept about our government, when you consider it in the context of other governments throughout the world? You speak of some alleged Chinese military threat, but would you really prefer such a model of government?

You object to liberal ideals and think 'pornography' is a scourge that is some kind of genuine threat, and yet, I take it you don't want some kind of fascist ultra-conservative government such as is the model of Saudi Arabia? Unless you're just out for some Christian equivalent...

You'll forgive me if your positions seem a little inconsistent, but if your only way to quantify this is to resort to some diatribe about prophecies or 'The Word' then I'll pass on hearing another bizarre tangent.

ok I am laughing! but concerned too Gibo has a fan club, every idea has worth we are told.
But how truly do we handle this?
I know glen I often pass it and it is a great Scottish built town, can we ask those who jumped into agree with Gibo to consider this thread?
And if it is true , the claims they made not Gibos that we are so badly governed tell us of the last government that was ok
It shouts at me that a thread like this is the best place some can find to seek support?

I agree with you Jolanda.
I think things have gotten far too complex for governments to function fully.
A process starts, but doesnt always get completed. I havent got answers to the problem.
I hear NSW is broke... having spent too much. Labor.
Maybe theres also too much paper work in government.
It killed the NSW Police Force for years and thwarted function.
I hate to see jobs go because at the other end of the spectrum it creates vast social problems (sacked people hit drugs and booze and this wrecks relationships. The great and mighty corporations ought to remember this when they sack faithful employees to save a buck) but the paper work could get a major trim.
But who's to do it?
Labor just doesnt manage. Appears to spend its time with dreams, maybe of a great global New Age communism...a second try at the old Red thing...polished up, with new chrome, but the same thing.
They have camourflage around everything, so we dont get a clear picture of their plans.
Im sorry the thread degenerated to a bit of a brawl but some of the younger boys dont like me speaking against Labor, connecting the old communism to it and to the unions (communism in Australia isnt dead just altered by the fallen spirit world to suit another plan...i.e. get us involved more and more with an evil Chinese government).
What you say Tapp is also true. The Labor chaps love their small dictators but forget how far the States have backslidden under that party. I watched it and saw it happen. In four years the cupboard will be bare again and we will further be caught in the grips of Red China.

Dont support Glen Innes, NSW guys. Not unless its the committed christians. They have had a hard time under the pro-Celtic mob in that town.
I was in Glen Innes on the Sunday of the two days of the Celtic festival in 2005 and I was in a lively christian church and you could feel the oppression in the air from the dark side of the evil spirit realm upon that small church group. The occult folk were in town for the festival and had set up their stalls all over town...and invisible powers had come with them.
A few of days later when I got home I wrote to the Glen Innes Examiner "letters" column and questioned the Celtic heritage thing and all of the occult behaviour that it had brought into the town. Not long afterwards a lady from the area rang me up, a really on-fire-for Jesus christian lady, and spoke to me about some dead (read sacrificed) chickens the local police had found up at the standing ring of stones above the township (stonehenge built all over again) but were keeping quiet about it.
I subsequently exposed this in the Examiner with another letter that the editor checked out with Glen Innes police to see if it was a true story...and had found it truthful enough a story sufficient to have my letter printed. Backwards and forwards, once the chicken slaughter had been exposed, went the two-way chat on the Examiner web Your Say column until after a some weeks all of the talk got deleted. I assumed the editor came under so much pressure that he eventually buckled under the weight from the pro-witchcraft group...and he simply gave up.
The pro-witchcraft group in town had much influence on the Severn Shire Council that they had a story on the council website about a mythological figure called Arwen. Occult witchcraft stuff it was. The Pagans are into this tree hugger stuff. This too disappeared from the Council website no long after exposure of the dead chickens...the Council running and hiding in their embarrassment.

Managing slack government:

An ostracism system where the leader not necessarily the party can be removed by the people mid-office. The ancient Greeks did this. Obviously, we would need something more sophisted than black mables, but the priciple would remain the same.

I think in the US one state [California?] a governor can be ostracised/removed by voters.

Remember politicians at the end of the day our temporary employees.

Invisible oppression, stalls around town - yep thats got to be far worse than being killed, jailed etc which occult practitioners have dealt with for centuries from cristains. Dead chickens, dam and I was thinking about going out and buying one for lunch.

The idea of sacrificing one as part of a religious ceremony is sick but as long as it's done quickly and with the least pain possible not so bad in the big scheme of things.

Did any of the local churchs have chicken on the sandwiches they had at the fellowship lunch they probably had as part of their spiritual warfare against dark powers that weekend?

The description of christians being oppressed does not seem to have any actual content other than christains not liking competition. Kind of like Wollies or Coles complaining about being oppressed by the local IGA.

R0bert

Oliver the way things are set up now it is those who complain that are ostrasized, the ones who do the wrong thing are promoted.

Education - Keeping them Honest
http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/
Our children deserve better

Gibo. What you doing is old school, religion has severed its purpose.

I feel sorry for you.

For those wondering why christains might not have a lot of cause to be concerned about the morality of a couple of chooks being sacrificed as part of a religious ceremony you may want to consider what their god has in her history

http://bible.cc/2_chronicles/7-5.htm "King Solomon offered a sacrifice of 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep. Thus the king and all the people dedicated the house of God."

There are other examples of large numbers of animals being slaughtered and commands from their god to do so in times past.

R0bert

Jolanda,

Hello again.

You been through too much no doubt.

Have you tried the Weschler Intelligence Scale for Children. The scores will be lower but the standard deviations might be more stable than a test using chronological age as a denominator.

Cheers,

O.

Oliver is has nothing to do with the intelligence tests, it has to do with victimisation, bias, manipulation and misconduct by a Government Department. Why doesn't anybody ever focus on them?

How can help people, when they wont help them self's.

Jolanda,

I wish you success and agree Government can be a problem. I can feel for your frustration but the Stanford/Binet was developed circa 1904/5.

With high IQ children the gap between mental age and chronological tends to reduce over time. The Government might be negligent in blocking you and perhaps defaming you [see your solicitor], yet most developmental psycholgists are likely re-test and disgard two-year old data.

If you feel DET is falsely accusing of being vexatious is there an Ombudsman available to you?

Worth noting a few side issues that do not get interest in separate threads are reborn in this one.
If nothing else it highlights some will take any chance to be seen and heard but are not interested in reality.
Gibo Glen Innis indeed has that festival, maybe if you look with an open mind you will see it dates back before the Christ fable existed, in its present form.
We can if we want to be honest see Christianity is not the biggest religion in the world any more was it ever?
And if that is so and if we believe freedom of belief is ok who are we to cry about witchcraft?
If they exist in Glen Innis, and they may not, they are not likely to have any impact worse than Gibo.

Oliver, there are a few Stanford Binets. One is the SBLM and that is an old outdated test that you are talking about, the other is the SB4 and the new one is the SB5. The SB4 was developed in 1986 and it is the test that my children first took and it is a test that is accepted by the DET as a valid test. My children also took the WISC with the same high results.

The DET have presented the Stanford Binet 4 IQ test as the SBLM to the Selection Committees and as an outdated test when clearly the test was the SB4. It was administered by the University of New South Wales Gifted research center. The Selective Schools Unit present whatever picture they want to present so as to achieve whatever outcome that they want to achieve. They also manipulated my children's applications and put lies before the selection committee and the appeals panel so that my children would be unsuccessful then they covered up the complaints.

If you were going for a job and somebody manipulated and tampered with your application so that you would be unsuccessful and you not only needed this job but you deserved it, how would you feel? Then if they did it again and again because nobody would do anything about your complaints what would you do?

Nobody has ever said that my children are not intellectually gifted and my children are consistent high achievers as the level presented to them is too low. What the DET say is that on the Selective School tests on that day they do not get high marks to be put in a Selective School but the documents produced under FOI show extensive evidence of bias, tampering and manipulation and the presentation of incorrect information to the panels.

The Ombudsman is another level of cover up. He can use discretion at will and justify it with lack of funding. He is beyond scruitiny and he doesn’t play fair. Just like so many people for some reason he doesn't seem to care about the children.

Yeh RObert we know about the Old Testament sacrifices to God.
Only the shedding of blood washes away sin.
Christ on the Cross was for you...for everyone. His Blood is for us...for our souls if we receive it and make Him Saviour.
Those chickens in Glen Innes were sacrificed to satan.
Theres a vast difference.
Belly.
Have you noticed...God got rid of the Celts because of their paganism? That should tell you something. Civilisations that are bad get displaced.
Dont uplift the Celts...they have vanished and live now only in the hearts of wayward men and women who want to bring back dead, shattered civilisations to dance (maybe unwittingly) with the demons that corrupted them.
*Shortly half the world and more are going to turn to Jesus Christ because what is coming. We christians know this because The Holy Spirit lives in us and confirms this to be true. The Bibles endtimes are coming and are going to cut right across the personal plans of everyone on earth. Christians will soon be the biggest group that has ever been on the earth since Adam and Eve. You will be there too most likely.

Jolanda,

FOI is a problem. I know a person [a well known TV personality] who could not even make to the stage of FOI release. Tony Abbott said he would provide details of a test involving PET scanners in July, 2007. That date came and results presumably suggested the government should buy more multi-million dollar scanners. But somehow Government was [is?] fighting release. It will have to to court.

Surprised these guys are not accepting WISC. It is effective in demonstrating percentile ranks. I have a young friend who had a TER of 98 point something but it was too low for a "scholarship" at UTS. He did manage Macquarie.

Do non-government selective schools offer scholarships? What about the CEO system? You would not have to be a Catholic.

Gibo, have you explained yet why you think we have an inept government, when, to quote your own words, you "really loved John Howard?"

Who, let's face it, was the architect of the 'inept' government we have?

How can this possibly be? Please clarify.

Looking back TRTL I always see the beginning of inept government with Gough Whitlam, then Hawke then Keating. They spent all of the money, couldnt manage and couldnt explain why they couldnt manage. The disease then spread throughout the States as Labor took over and will continue to spread until the Libs get back in. I saw John Howards government as good managers... as the balance showed as his government went out.
Labor did something wrong with Defence, I cant quite finger it at the moment, but Defence degenerated under them.
I still think the old communist/spirit powers thing flickers on and has drawn Labor more and more towards China.
I suspect it is sedition.

Gibo you do make me laugh but not with you, just for a second consider what your God would make of you.
If he existed I think your dismissal of voters who put every government in place, may just have him laughing at you too.
50 years ago your demon may have been Hitler or Russia now for the present it is China?
Christianity is not served by your miss placed assurance only you know the truth.

Oliver the problem is that my children have been are are being targeted, neglected, bullied and victimised for over 7 years because I complained about their education.

The Department is not accepting tests that they should, there is clear evidence of manipulation of test scores and tampering of my children's test marks and school applications produced under FOI. The Selective Schools Unit are presenting lies and incorrect information to the Selection Committees and appeals panels on which to base thier decision. The process is corrupted and flawed and there is no process to hold these people to account even though their targets are children and they are neglecting and bullying children. Complaints are filed away and ignored.

This is the issue, not what IQ test my children presented. The hardest thing I have found is to try to get people to actually stop and look at what the System is or isn't doing.

FOI is corruptable as they can change information and destroy information (as they did in my families case) without having to answer to anyone. The whole system is corrupted and as a result nothing changes except those who abuse their power get promoted so as to better be able to cover up and protect the reptuation of the Government.

We need to hold our public servants to account as they should be required to exercise their duties with integrity and impartiallity and to ensure that the protection of children is of paramount concern. If we do not demand that then it is our fault that the system is the way that it is.

Jolanda,

"FOI is corruptable as they can change information and destroy information (as they did in my families case) without having to answer to anyone."

Why not have a talk with your local member or a Chamber Magistrate?

I would have thought there would be some statutes governing the preservation of government records?

Some private schools run Gifted Programmes besides the regular curricula. Again, the Catholic School System, owing to their ethic of being pastorally caring might not push for high fees. Also, your children might "ace" a scholarship somewhere?

Oliver I spoke to my local member etc they wrote to those responsbile who responded by saying that extensive enquiries had been completed and the matter had been deemed closed. I even sent to the Local members internal emails/file notes that clearly say that the Minister for Education ordered an investigation but the investigation never happened. The Local Member/opposition then wrote to me and said that he/she had been advised that the matter had been deemed closed and that they did not have the power, funding or resources to do anything to help my family and protect the children from further harm. Our Politicians are a waste of money as they can do nothing about anything.

I have already done what I can to try to protect my children. The problem is that we are still being treated with a total lack of respect and those responsible have been promoted to positions of even more power where they have more access to do more harm. I have 2 children doing Year 12 who are worried about the integrity of their marks and they have good reason to be worried. We have legidimate complaints and we have documentation to support our allegations but there is no avenue to get redress or to have those complained about dealt with so that those alleged to be responsible can inflict no further harm. Our children are not protected.

The DET have access to students marks. Through a students marks they can inflict harm and oppression. The DET have the opportunity and safety net to discriminate at will. They can segregate. This is wrong. We should fight against this. The Education system has to be FAIR!

Belly.
Im not the only one who knows China is the problem.
Us christians...my group and many others right around the world...talk about her quite a bit.
We know she is the head nation of the group known as the kings of the east (Revelation 9:16 and 16:12).
We know she has a plan to do away with the USA.
She and Russia are buddies behind closed doors according to christian prophecies.
We know she wants Australia (as New China or New South China).
There has been evil government in every age.
In this age its China.
She is a deceiver of the nations of the world.
PS: if K.Rudd fails you will see God reverse the peoples decision and get rid of him.
Giving in to the gays and the lesbians will be his downfall. He maybe a church goer but Im sure he's not born again (John 3:3).
He wouldnt be in Labor if he was with their record of the old Red stuff and ungodly unions.

Gibo in another thread you ask is OLO the best forum it is, we however get side tracked and you are not the only one in this thread who does it.
Like that Christian on my bus some want to be heard but not listen.
You put your self out there as a person who knows more than most but in truth you seem to follow another God than the one I once followed.
In truth every government of every shade that has ever ruled gets it wrong, every one of them.
The task of serving us all from so many different sides is not achievable.
If you got your wish what would you do with homosexuals? would you kill them?
Earlier you admitted your God called for blood to cleanse us his too but all those animals!
Would you condemn me for being both a unionist and ALP voter?
What then with over half the worlds population who are not Christians?
Do you see why I laugh at you but fear the damage you do too?
See most Christians are not bad people, do not act like you talk.
You shout in an empty room, how many would come to your God after listening to you?

"Those chickens in Glen Innes were sacrificed to satan. Theres a vast difference." - so you are admitting that it's not the practice you disagree with but rather that it's a different faith. As I said earlier fundy christains don't like competition.

Are you certain that the ceremonies are satanic, my understanding is that those beliefs are far older than the idea of "satan", this looks a lot like you putting your spin on what others are doing and presenting it as fact. Manipulation was refered to by one poster as witchcraft.

It's not really about inept governments is it Gibo? It's about governments not always dancing to your extremist fundamentalist agenda. The rest is just a smokescreen.

You want a christain government (and I note elsewhere a christain section on OLO) enforcing your version of christianity on the rest of us. Probably on those christains who don't happen to hold to your particular interpretaion of your faith as well, I recall your attacks on Philo because he takes a more scriptural view of the idea of demons than your sensationalist approach.

Often government is inept but thats not what your are really fighting, thats just a dishonest ploy to push some particular faith derived barrows.

R0bert

RObert.
Take the Glen Innes thing up with Belly.
He brought the subject up on this thread in the first place, though I do appreciate any mention of that town anywhere by anybody because of the persecution of the christians by the witchcraft people. I get to tell the story over and over again until the news spreads across the land and The Lord gets an open door to move those occult folk out of the town...and sets the christians free from the demon oppression thats been going on.
Thanks.
Belly.
I cant be shouting at an empty room because youre responding.
So what I say is going into soil anyway... though I suspect the soil isnt the richest.
We were on about inept governments?

Gibo - inept government is an extremely broad topic. All things are relative.

We need a few reference points. Tell me - what governments would you consider to be less 'inept' than the Australian one?

For my two bob, I'd say the Danish government is very effective and drives a highly competitive economy despite high taxes, which flies in the face of traditional conservative rhetoric.

But then again, it is a very liberal government, and judging by your stance on various issues, I'd say you're not in favour of liberal government models.

Which throws up another question - are you talking about administration, economic management, or social issues?

Frankly, given the vagueness of the topic, and your habit to lay any 'negative' aspects of government to the Labor party while giving all credit to those on the 'right' of government leads me to believe you're not actually interested in analysing inept government at all - rather, like the pornography thread, you're taking a position and hammering anything that reeks of a liberal attitude, which you probably ascribe to satan or some other ridiculous nonsense.

Two bob. TRTL are you an older guy. I havent heard old currency talk for ages.
I mentioned some of what was offensive to me in the opening thread. We could go and get outside help.
I think its hard for Australians to get away from the old convict mindset...you know "she'll be right, mate. A bit of sticky tape and a bit of wire will hold it together. Put in a dollar here and a dollar there. No one will know and they will think we are managing great".
Thats very prevalent through every level of OZ society.
Ive had two government jobs and saw it quite often.
The topic isnt vague.
Actually much is in topic wordiology.
I just wanted to know if anyone had bright ideas that much help a backsliding society.
Give a few years I reckon its going to be like "Escape from New York"...crims everywhere, vigilantes everywhere, chaos and subsequent social ruin. If some one doesnt enact wisdom and take control of the huge, wasteful spending thats going on and redirect it into where its desperately needed... we're in big trouble.
Thoughts on the subject of inept governments I was after.

You say vast quantities of money are being wasted.

Where is the wastage? Now there's a topic with huge potential.

Gibo was that a lie? or a mistake? can we take anything you say on face value?
Re read the thread then care to repeat that it was me who bought up Glen Innis?
By now you should understand I do not think of you as a Christian but a parody of one.
I truly see no difference in your verbal out put that a foolish man once in power in Lakemba in Sydney.
Both of you in my truly held view damage the goods you sell far more than promote them.
I look forward to you retracting that shall we say miss information.
Rather by the way spend winter in Glen Innis dancing stark naked around those standing stones than an hour in your company mate.

Belly, whilst it's Gibo's dishonest (and or unsubstantiated) claims that I've been addressing I think Gibo is refering to "A dreamer searching for a dream home found you claiming one town was inhabited by demons" http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1723#33710 when he says you brought it up. Gibo then took your brief unnamed mention and created a new sub discussion http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1723#33716

Your initial mention of a claim by Gibo does not excuse Gibo from "bearing false witness" against others which he appear to be doing in regard to the people of Glen Innis and those who take part in the celtic festival. Like most his claims these ones appear to be based on extrapolation from his existing beliefs rather than fact.

For some reason Gibo feels that he should be able to make all sorts of claims and then consider any challenge or rebuttal of his claims as off topic. I have a different view.

R0bert

Have a look at the comment Belly on "a dreamer searching for a dream home".
Thats where the Glen Innes two-way started.
RObert.
There was no false witness against (some) of the people in Glen Innes.
I knew what went on and gave testimony to what I saw and heard from the local christian community and it would stand up in a court of law.
And what does TRTL want to talk about as waste?
I mentioned Defence earlier.
You want to talk about Defence TRTL?
All of the second hand rubbish we purchase from the USA.
Those Americans could sell anything to Australia and we'd buy it. Abrams tanks too heavy to move. Second hand landing craft full of rust. Then theres the rubbish we build ourselves and have to fix later on... for years.
The Collins subs. Over the horizon radar...can anyone tell me if it even works YET?
On and on...rubbish... and millions to fix it.
And then theres the States.
Labor governments failing to support the rail systems, the buses, the ferries, the hospitals, the prisons, their Police forces, millions and millions wasted on great Labor fantasy.
NSW IS BROKE. They have been overspending money to please special and elite groups.
Theres is no more money for roads. There is only enough for filling the potholes. Nothing is left for traffic flow improvements for the years ahead. The roads will NOT improve in the years ahead. Millions have been wasted because Labor cannot manage.
Who is looking after the country folk? Their situation gets worse and worse each year. If they went on strike...we would starve.
I believe that bit by bit Australia is falling into anarchy.

Gibo, talking about invisible powers and claiming that a group is oppressed because you felt oppressed during a church service is hardly going to stand up in a court of law.

"I was in Glen Innes on the Sunday of the two days of the Celtic festival in 2005 and I was in a lively christian church and you could feel the oppression in the air from the dark side of the evil spirit realm upon that small church group. The occult folk were in town for the festival and had set up their stalls all over town...and invisible powers had come with them. " http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1723#33822

Claiming that the chooks were sacrificed to satan is unlikely to stand up unless you have clear evidence of what took place.
"Those chickens in Glen Innes were sacrificed to satan." http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1723#33919

Hearing third hand that the police had found some dead chickens then assuming that they were sacrificed is not sufficient evidence(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1723#33822) to then claim that sacrifes have been offered to satan.

Given that you claim to have been a policeman I think it's fair to assume that you have some understanding of the standards required of evidence and what you have presented here clearly would not pass muster in court.

If someone was posting malicious claims about your church on this site which they had no evidence of would you consider that OK because they heard it from someone else who does not like your church?

I found an interesting link which discusses christain views on halloween and some of the stuff about celtic belief and satan. I don't know how good the material is but it makes for an interesting read. It will be wasted on Gibo no doubt but others may find it interesting.

http://www.liberatedthinking.com/data/Library/Paganism/Pagan%20History%20and%20Facts/FAQ%20about%20Hallowween.htm

R0bert

"Only the shedding of blood washes away sin."<Gibo>

Satan, however apparently prefers chicken.

Bugsy: << Satan, however apparently prefers chicken. >>

Maybe Gibo's on to something after all. Last time I drove through Glen Innes I noticed a KFC store on the highway. They have a menu item called "wicked wings".

"Keltic Fried Chicken - Devil Worshipping Good".

Gibo: "And what does TRTL want to talk about as waste?
I mentioned Defence earlier.
You want to talk about Defence TRTL?
All of the second hand rubbish we purchase from the USA.
Those Americans could sell anything to Australia and we'd buy it. Abrams tanks too heavy to move. Second hand landing craft full of rust. Then theres the rubbish we build ourselves and have to fix later on... for years.
The Collins subs. Over the horizon radar...can anyone tell me if it even works YET? "

And guess what Gibo - your beloved John Howard is behind those incompetent purchases. In fact, Labor has commissioned a new defence paper and have had to reject the seasprite helicopter purchase despite millions being poured into it.

As for wastage, I believe Labor's the party putting a razor gang in motion now.

Your comments about wastage in the NSW state government are valid, but they're echoed in State governments across the country. The only reason why the Labor party wins State elections, are because the conservative parties are even more incompetent.

So far, the reasons for the alleged 'ineptness' of the federal government you've stated so far, can be laid at the feet of John Howard, who you have also stated you 'really loved'.

What gives? You say wastage is a reason why governments are inept, then when I ask where the wastage occurs, you cite several things that were all done by John Howard, who you say you think was a good leader and manager.

No TRTL.
You cant blame John Howard.
Theres an established system behind the man in Canberras top spot.
Even John had a complaint about Defence buying big tech all of the time.
I remember it on tv on day.
Theres little people in behind the scenes who do the presentations and the purchasings.
I think men who roll dice and dip into lucky dips.
Could be some sus guys for all I know because it doesnt always work out what they buy for the nations defences, is good for the nations defences.
Im sticking with those prophecies Ive gathered which say...THE ENEMY GOT HERE AND GOT ESTABLISHED.
He flew right over all of the subs and ships and bypassed all of the planes and he landed.
The asian eagle landed.

So when the libs do really silly things it's the fault of the little (possibly invisble) people calling the shots but when labor screws up it's because they are inept.

OK I've got it now and it's all so simple.

On the other hand I would have expected that a competent government would have asked questions beyond the establishment. That when they recieved an unconfirmed report that there were children thrown overboard someone would have sought confirmation (especially after doubts were raised about the claim)

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/maritime_incident_ctte/report/c03.htm
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/maritime_incident_ctte/report/c04.pdf
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/maritime_incident_ctte/report/c05.pdf
"5.3 The key question for the Committee is how both mistakes were able to stand uncorrected throughout the period of an election campaign, during which ‘border protection’ was a significant and sensitive issue." and
"5.7 From 10 October 2001 to 8 November 2001, Defence personnel gave advice relating to the veracity of the report that children had been thrown overboard on five separate occasions to Minister Reith or his office. In addition, Vice Admiral Shackleton commented on the matter to the media on 8 November 2001."

Inept or just plain dishonest?

R0bert

Yes well once again I will state that the reason we are in the state that we are in is because when law abiding citizens have legidimate complaints against those employed by the Government everything goes silent. Complaints are covered up and nobody cares even if the targets are children. Protecting bullies seems to be the focus and concern.

I guess Jolanda somewhere government people adopted a "protect their own back" type of syndrome that hampered much that would have been successfully concluded.
As a policeman in NSW much of my work was hampered by the overall surrounding work environment.
All of us younger guys spent a large amount of time protecting our backs from those above us and not concentrating on what we should have been doing.
Many times things didnt get a completion because of how we thought superiors might react if we pushed on in...e.g. "who would get upset if we went ahead and investigated or filled out reports on the incident?"
Things got written off rather than investigated because too many hurdles would have had to have been crossed to complete the mission. There was always a background battle going on with superior officers juggling for positions...the Catholics warring against the Masons in the job...guys doing anything to get their names of reports to put them in a better light...people trampling others to get to the top. War and conflict and that was just the Police...one small area of State government. Its the same in every department I believe...but who can do anything about it.

Yes I WAS WRONG
Ten minutes latter in my car on my way to a far away work site I knew I was wrong.
Gibo you should know it concerned me that I got it wrong and that for the day I reminded myself of it sorry.
But mate not sorry to say I do honestly think you are a parody of a Christian.

Thats all right Belly.
I see Labor is letting the gay rights thing out of the box according to the SMH.
I wonder what kind of a world Labor will be making for tomorrows children? Or dont Labor supporters care about immorality?

Gibo it isn't just the Government, it appears to be the majority of people dont care. What sort of future and what hope do our children have when adults ignore children's cries for protection and help just because their cries are being relayed by their mother. For over 7 years my children have been targeted, victimised, bullied and treated unfairly by adult Government employees in positions of power and for the most part my childrenh are seen by the public as acceptable sacrifices of the system. The adults in our society are failing in it's duty of care to the children.

All complaints or allegations that involve the wellfare and wellbeing of children should be subject to a proper and fair investigation and have avenues of appeal and redress. The system should not be alloed to just close complaints without affording the complaintant procedural fairness and natural justice. How else are we going to protect our children from pedophiles, bullies and from harm and show them that they are valued and that we care?

"I see Labor is letting the gay rights thing out of the box according to the SMH. "

As I suggested earlier this thread is really about Gibo not liking policy rather than government ineptitude.

I posted links to material which clearly shows at best ineptitude at worst deliberate deceit by the previous federal government (which I voted for) and Gibo has completely ignored that. His comments so far have either been off topic or about policy which he does not like (or the prospect of policy). More spin and evasion.

Personally I find dishonesty a much bigger risk to society than which hole consenting adults choose to use.

R0bert

Yes Jolanda most people dont care much anymore about anything.
One of my pastors put it down to the bomb.
He's about my age and we both grew up in the Cold War era when we didnt even think we would live til the year 2000.
Well...God Kept the bombs from going off but an apathy-towards-effort came from that period, a sort of a background knowledge that most things werent worth working for.
Maybe this is why theres little real commitment these days.
Both my pastor and I became born again christians later on and guess what? Jesus replaced that non-caring and concern with hope.
We got the hope...so will all who turn to Him.
I really see the world backsliding away from good government to the point one day, not too far away, when the only thing really fuctioning will be Christian revival. The people turning to Christ for peace and joy and security.

Gibo you have got me again! tried to hush it up but my ALP invented Gay love.
Think it was early 1900s in QLD.
Well no we have always had them every day man lived and that is their business not mine.
Your teaching tells you God died for mans sins , only some of them?
Only some men? only some races?
Did he make those of other sexual bent only so he could send them to hell?
And those who follow other religions? just to condemn them too?
Look I will take care this weekend of who I sit next to.
No way I want the seat next to a person who is content to harm over half the world in the name of his/her God.

I'm late in on this one, and I can understand frustration with government, but I think politicians behave in the only way society allows them to. The media, being a reflection of society I think, is a powerful force. I really liked this speach by Tony Blair...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/jun/12/tonyblair.labour

I guess Belly if God runs the Universe, which He does, then He gets to say who goes where.
I think you would do well in the long run to break away from Labor. I believe they are antichrists (mind you that really means "another, or other Christs")...people who would uplift themselves as saviours to the nation. Which of course they are not.
Thats me remembering now the smirk on the faces of the Whitlam, the Hawke and the Keating characters.
What did they really know...they are gone with the wind:)
Oh, Blessed day.
On the Final Day...I wouldnt want to be connected to anyone..just to Jesus as my Saviour.

Gibo, can we please stay on topic. Your demonic-moon-pie-saucer deity has little relevance to inept governments, except perhaps to blind you to the ineptness of the conservative side.

I'm still waiting for you to cite where a government aside from Howard has wasted funds, but as yet the only examples you have put forward are still those defence ones which were indeed made by your beloved Howard government. How you can still pretend Labor are worse when you can only come up with ineptness from Howard really does highlight your inability to consider the issue from a non-partisan standpoint.

Youre not waiting for answers TRTL.
Youre with Belly and Robert.
Laying traps for me all over the place.
I know what I witnessed in life.
I know who the bad boys in politics are.
I worked under NSW State government in a time when much was unsatisfactory.
I may not always have references but I do have an eyewitness testimony about many things.
I read papers, I go on the net.
I observe what the press says and I know that even today they are still accountable for a degree of truth.
I see and I hear and I know whats going on.
I saw John Howard do careless things, but I never saw him willingly lie...even if someone wants to quote children overboard.
I know Labor and what they are out of...and I dont trust them. Im with Pro Hart in saying communism isnt dead. That old Red flame will flicker on until the last of the old Labor guys have gone from the earth.
By then we may have connected with another Red thing through subservience to Red China.

Gibo another false accusation on your part "Youre with Belly and Robert. Laying traps for me all over the place."

I don't think any of us are laying traps for you, rather trying to hold you accountable for the numerous false or unsubstantiated claims you make.

Your blog was interesting in that it demonstrated clearly how you always see your failings as someone elses fault. It was the culture and or the older policemans fault that you did not uphold your sworn duties, it was their fault that you choose to drink to excess.

It's someone elses fault around here when you make a false accusation and then are challenged about it. Never your fault for making the false claim in the first place or presenting it as fact rather than opinion.

You suggested elsewhere that you might need more healing, perhaps you could start by taking responsibility for your own choices through life. Sometimes the options are not easy (the situation you faced in the police) but we almost always have a choice.

In this case if you don't want to be challenged about your claims don't post them in a public forum. Better still be prepared to back your claims with evidence, take up the challenge when other present evidence. You have not responded to the material I posted about the children overboard incident or the bible verses I provided on the womens clothing thread which you started - both on topic and from public sources.

You and only you are acountable for your lifes choices, not the police heirarchy, not the beer makers, not the porn makers and not other posters on OLO.

Accept that and you might be on your way to healing.

R0bert

Pretty well said, R0bert.

Gibo - the matter is quite simple. At the end of the day, you come here and make all kinds of wild statements.

What's more, you make these wild statements, and expect that others should believe them, when you give them no reason to, except your own 'life experience' which we're supposed to take as gospel.

I don't think anybody else here believes in corporeal demons. Maybe some of the more fringe Christians might believe in demonic possession, I dunno. When you're talking subjects like that, it's all varying degrees of nuttery to me.

Even that I could go along with, and I wouldn't object to someone who believes those things. You however, have zero respect for other views, so I've responded in kind.

People disagree about many things in life, Gibo. If you expect to persuade people, you should talk to them.

You however, talk at people. Not to them.
You simply don't listen to others. When they present you with information that doesn't suit you, you either just plain ignore it, or dismiss it as part of some evil conspiracy.

You think you're above justification, or giving reasons. Maybe you think with your god on your side, you don't need to use reason or logic.

When challenged, you change topic or preach at people. When others don't stick to the topic, you chastise them, without even once considering your own hypocrisy.

Trap indeed.

Fact is, you tell others to stay on topic, while jumping all over the place.

I make the comments about Howard and so forth, because you're blind to your hypocrisy. Be it Labor or liberal, they're all just people who make mistakes.

There aren't 'absolute' rules you can apply. The world is not black and white. Labor isn't evil, nor was Howard, regardless of how objectionable I found him. The world isn't some grand clash between the forces of light and dark, no matter how much you may crave such simplicity.

Most people have the courage to face the complex nature of a world of grey. You don't.

To get back to the topic - most of the inept government we've seen in recent decades will of course be a result of the Howard government, them having been in power so long (this is why I find your simultaneous Howard worship and contempt for our government so stupid).
I'd say that the biggest improvements we could make would be a genuinely independent public service. I'm skeptical this will happen, even though Rudd does seem to be making some overtures in that direction.

What's interesting, is he's also saying that top civil servants may face replacement from the private sector - which, actually conflicts with the idea of an independent public service, unless of course Rudd's actually putting forward a decent 'arm's length' model.

Though at least, moves are being made to restore some accountability there, even if they don't eventuate. More than I can say for Howard...

Now, Gibo - is that something you can actually consider, or would you rather just point out how evil Labor is and maybe foretell a prophecy of doom at the hands of some evil lefty?

Pull K. Rudds mask off and there maybe another being underneath.
A church going christian, committed to Jesus Christ, doesnt allow the gays further power. He resists anyway he can. The gays are not after rights... they are after power.

Gibo while the thread is about poor government it is your thread so it is also about fundamentalist Christianity.
Demonising my party the ALP and a list so very long of ideas that seem to say some humans are evil or followers of evil.
It is of no worth to remind you of John Howard's acts, children over board or exporting our citizens.
This weekend I sit among my party, some will be late on Sunday church comes first but you condemn them too.
Any brief look at the birth of your God finds another God under neath a host of former Gods even Christmas day is a steal.
You wait for a day to come that will see you on you knees forever at the feet of your God while I fry in a non existent hell.
Wait as quick as you can mate it will be a long wait.
I will look every day at mans greatness life bad governments or good it is in our hands no one Else's.
I ask you again is your God prepared to kill every one who is not his follower?