The Forum > General Discussion > Should Holocaust studies be compulsory at school?
Should Holocaust studies be compulsory at school?
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Posted by Jack the Lad, Friday, 28 March 2008 2:17:12 PM
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Fractelle, I'm amazed that you took a shower. Weren't you scared that the nasty White Supremacists would use it to pump ZyklonB through it?
Steven 'I pointed out that it would cost billions of dollars and involve thousands of people to get it right' ie 'fake' the holocaust. How did you arrive at these figures? You may be partly right as Stalin had millions of people at his disposal. That would back up Dr Piper's assertion that the camp was fabricated on Stalin's orders. You wrote 'There is no more point in debating a Holocaust denier than there is in debating a virus'. If that statement is your idea of debate, you can call me Shlomo. Of course you must be right because your views are still those of the majority. Posted by Jack the Lad, Friday, 28 March 2008 2:18:56 PM
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LOL folks, I rest my case.
As impervious to reason as a virus. Stalin, for reasons nobody can fathom, used slave labour to fake the Holocaust! And no refugee from the Soviet Union ever revealed this fact? When Solzhenitsin wrote the "Gulag Archipelago" he somehow left that bit out? A characteristic of all Holocaust deniers is that they reverse Occam's razor. Instead of going for the simplest explanation they favour the most convoluted, complex, incredible explanations they can conceive Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 28 March 2008 2:53:27 PM
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Stevenlmeyer “But that does not mean I have to fall into the trap of debating Holocaust deniers. There is no more point in debating a Holocaust denier than there is in debating a virus. Both are equally impervious to reason.”
I must admit reading jack-the-lads latest offerings I can see your point. Danielle “Unless those charlatans denying or diminishing such horrors are challenged, shown up for what they are, those less knowledgeable may go away with completely erroneous ideas. We owe it not only to history, but also to those who died” More importantly Danielle, we also owe it to our children and grand children. The only chance we have of respecting and benefiting from the sacrifice of the dead in past wars is to try and learn from the reasons they gave up their lives. Those reasons include opposing the sort of government which murdered, through gas, torture and starvation, over 10 million people, considered as political opponents and subhuman. Although I politically oppose them, I consider holocaust deniers fully entitled to share the free speech they use to lie about the holocaust. I do ask them, however, in their denial of the holocaust, what sort of freedoms should be extended to people, including me as a political opponent, under the political system they are defending? The right to die on the boot of an SS man? The right to be experimented on by a Mengele? The right to have all your personal property stolen by the state? The right to be locked into a ghetto and starved to death? I sincerely invite Jack the Lad to make his contribution. How would you treat me Jack, as a vociforous opponent of fascism, having 2 Jewish great grandmothers. What could I expect from the political system which you are steadfastly defending by denying that the holocaust happened and which I assume you would like to see running Australia? Posted by Col Rouge, Friday, 28 March 2008 4:16:59 PM
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Dear Steven,
I am amazed at your patience, self-control, and civility. I don't know if I agree with you though about it being pointless in arguing with a 'denier.' I think I'd argue a bit longer. But perhaps you're right - why give them more attention? The education of our children is where we should concentrate our attention. As I've written in another thread - what is important is the content of our children's hearts and minds, or what is often described as character. When we say, 'It's what's inside that counts,' we speak a simple but profound truth. Our role as parents is not to protect our children from the truth, but to protect them from something less than the truth! As far as the 'deniers' are concerned - when we cease to listen, then they no longer exist! Posted by Foxy, Friday, 28 March 2008 5:43:28 PM
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Ah Jack, I know that you are being deliberately obtuse, but what the heck, I did write the sentence incorrectly.
1) The ball-point written annotations of Anne Frank's diary were never published, as they do not constitute a part of the original diary. 2) The Netherlands Institute for War Documentation (NIOD) prepared The Diary of Anne Frank: Critical Edition which details all the annotations and history of the manuscript. I believe they are what you would call independent. 3) You have obviously not read the Leuchter Report, because Dr. Piper does not say anything in it. At all. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Zilch. I know this because it's available online. http://www.ihr.org/books/leuchter/leuchter.toc.html and here too http://vho.org/dl/ENG/tlr.pdf (if you want to waste your bandwidth) In fact, what you may be referring to is David Coles interview with Dr. Piper in 1992, take note of that date, because that's what real researchers do. Not 1988, 1992. http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html If you watch the video and read the transcript, you will see (and hear) that Dr. Piper does not even mention Stalin or basically anything that you have said, but that the Krema I was restored to its original condition. Man, you guys have really overactive imaginations. Dr. Piper is also on record as having revised the death figures for Auschwitz-Birkenau as 1.1 million. That is no small number. That you have totally lied about 'reading forensic reports' and quoting people that never said what you claim does not come as any surprise, it's just what you do. Posted by Bugsy, Friday, 28 March 2008 7:51:29 PM
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Bugsy somehow has access to unpublished materials? Could they be his own pathetic scribblings? Try harder Brian.
Here's another case of your failure to read and comprehend. Dr Piper did not state that 'at least 1.1 million people died at Auschwitz-Birkenau', the source stated was the 'Leuchter Report in 1988'. Dr Piper stated 'that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin'. Go back and read the page again - thouroughly.
Danielle, so I'm a White Supremacist because I deny the holocaust? Is that meant to upset me and make me into a spoon-fed believer? 'Many well educated people don't bear fools gladly' - many well educated people don't take what history tells them for granted either.
As for 'You have come off very lightly ... very lightly, indeed' - what is that meant to mean? Especially from someone who is ignoring the 'Canada' question. Maybe you're a 'Canada-denier'.
BTW, White Supremacists don't hate everybody, they prefer their own race and believe it to be the highest. It appears that that gets up your nose.