BRONWYN.....

you said: <<there is a concomitant responsibility and in the case of speaking freely it is that our words should not offend.>>

I register my disagreement with that.

Then you said:

<<Linking race and intelligence is an offensive concept as are David Irving's attempts to whitewash the Holocaust.>>

Now with that..I can agree.

This issue should not be 'Does what I say offend' but "is what I say true".

I'm not offended when people rant about "Ohhhh the Christians slaughtered many thousands during the Crusades" Because it is quite true. (But I need to come back to them in terms of Christ's example and teaching)

Even those who deliberately speak falsehood about Christ "you believe a bunch of fairy tales" (CJ Morgan in the 'Total Christ' thread) does not offend me, because he speaks from ignorance and unbelief. (though that ignorance is becoming less of an excuse before God, as he learns more about Christ)

I'd love to see how brave CJ is in Riyad or somewhere.. if he wrote under his real name to the local paper "Islam is based on fairy tales and myths" :) aaah.. that would sort out the boy CJ from the man CJ.

Unfortunately, it is unlikly he would survive such a tryst with fate.
He would quickly discover that the ranting raging mobs on the streets of London "Annihilate those who insult Islam" are more than just 'words'..it simply depends on where you are.

It is precisely because of that situation, that we must never never never allow that value system to take hold in Australia.
Aside from discriminatory legislation for immigration, and possibly banning the Quran, the most viable solution is national repentance and a return to Christ...which is the one I'm aiming for.

Cheers Col. And I agree with your sentiments on socialism. On that note there’s a new book by Jonah Goldberg titled “Liberal fascism” which has caused quite a stir in the US recently. Haven’t read it yet but apparently argues that there is a disquieting amount in common between liberals and fascists. The Nazis (national socialists & total govt control) & communists were both socialists but the only 2 parties in contention for the leadership prize – 2 competing leftist mafias. The Nazis had to differentiate themselves from the commos by pretending they were anything but left. Of course it was the same old stink, just a different name.

Second PALEIF's motion, Graham, if only to test my hypothesis: that on the 'real names only' section you'd get the same self-congratulating “I’m morally-superior” talk you hear any time like-minded people people get together - the 'great minds think alike' type. On the soft topics, numbers would rise, as some people love to see their name in print. On the really controversial ones, the non-PCers would tread very cautiously, hiding or moderating their real opinions, so the debate becomes fake. What’s the point of that?

But if you want people's real opinion, you want their private one. The 2 are rarely the same whenever a private opinion conflicts with self-interest. The comments from the ‘we really truly do believe in free speech, but…’ crowd are the antithesis of debate-seekers judging by their posts. I’ll second Runner’s “says it all!” riposte. Beautifully succinct. Watch the tone of their posts on the controversial topics. Full of emotion, never asking any questions,rarely engaging, full of ad-hominems & always closed-minded. They come across as totally afraid of debate on the such topics. They keep trying to remind themselves that “I'm pretty confident that the most vitriolic of those who plague this forum with hateful and bigoted ideas are actually pretty insignificant people in real life”. I’ve seen that time & time again. Who are they trying to convince? Why the fear? No dissent shall be tolerated. There’s “my-way or the highway”. That is the definition of ‘bigoted’. They can’t see that they are what they claim others to be. They are the ones displaying frenzied anger & hate - one poster described the alleged “racist” posters (no proof of course) as “spawn of cockroaches”. Such posters are the real haters. Get thee to a mirror, guys. And I’ve noticed those arguing the opposite to these people are overwhelmingly more reserved and use ad-hominems in reply far less & are much more open to debate.

And is it really that courageous to post a real name if your opinion toes the PC line? Or if you're discussing soft topics? Hardly.

I agree with Boazy. Yes, I know, hallelujah.

I don't believe anyone has the right not to be offended. We need to be more robust than that. Truth is a rightly a defence in defamation cases (for which reason I can say, for example, Boazy's last post about CJ is yet more evidence why he operates as an anti-missionary, driving people from god) as is satire (the way Boazy posts endless YouTubes featuring angry Muslims is beginning to make me feel like converting to Islam), but "it offended me" - I believe - should never be.

To make offense a defense institutionalises weakness. Culture needs to play out its debates to strengthen them. Vilification laws create martyrs - like David Irving. We should have faith that we can defeat obnoxious ideas fair and square, not really on the state to do it for us.

I believe.

Graham, count me out.

I've already had one other poster attempt to take a conflict on site off the site, thankfully they did not get access to identifying details.

I'm not convinced that those who post under real names are less prone to making abusive comments or telling outright lies.

We each have different lives, different willingness to take on certain types of risks, different levels of acceptance of conflict, different professional responsibilities etc. I chose to retain control over the impact my participation in OLO has on the rest of my life. If others choose differently then that is their choice.

In regard to the idea that the normal rules of conversation should apply this is not a normal environment. Anybody can read comments so identifying posters does not tell us who is listening. Maybe only registered posters could be allowed to read posts but then if thats an issue we'd still need to monitor who was taking part in a particular discussion.

Graham has my contact details and if he need more verification of who I am I'll supply it but the rest don't need the kind of details that would allow you to track me down or track down my associates.

I don't want OLO posters or readers contacting me uninvited. I don't want OLO posters or readers contacting my employer, my son's school, my ex wife or other associates. I don't want any of our resident religious extremists targetting me with visitation or calls to discuss their faith with me.

Quite frankly I find the emphasis some place on having those details quite concerning. I use an online name that's as close as I could get to my first name, polite but relatively safe. I fail to see why anybody other than Graham needs more than that unless you are trying to limit my freedom of speech by leaving the spectre of retribution hanging over my head.

R0bert

Graham Young
Count me in. Only Cowards hide behind false names. I have been victim more than once to those cowards and I cant afford to run off to lawyers so mostlty I stopped posting.
I would like to post a great deal more and I know if the people who make attacks against me had to use their real ID then the problem would never have stated for you or me in the first place.
I had a great deal of trouble with you Robert and I said My Name Is Taryn Winter and I am a aboriginal lady. My Name Is Taryn Winter. Thats my real name. If I have something to say I will be honest enough to put my real name on it.

I am a proud aboriginal lady with a lot to offer your forum if I were given the oportunity but I use my real name and find it impossible and unfair being abused from trouble makers.
If you had a section as pale suggested for real people using real names I would use it.
I would also invite many others and we would be much happier because it isnt fair when as I said cowards can come in and say things they are quite illegal but then we have to pay for lawyers and annoy you.

New people who are real will see you have this new forum and I think you will get much interest.
Let the cowards play all day with each other but give us a REAL forum with some standars. please.
Why Not have both. Why should the honest ones be forced to deal with cowards and pay for lawyers>
Its not fair.