The "free will" explanation for evil doesn't cut in anyway, because it imples that there is no free will in Heaven. If so, why on (ahem) Earth would you want to go there?

palimpsest,

I really consider it is the height of ignorance of you, for part quoting me. Here is your contribution to my distaste: >>>Earlier you said "maintaining and protecting beliefs in otherworldly concepts..... is a sure sign of psychosis, brought on by religion." Or of a pre-existing psychotic state.<<<

Here is what I actually said: “Maintaining and protecting belief in otherworldly concepts by way of evading pertinent questions is a sure sign of psychosis, brought on by religion. It could also mean the psychosis existed before the religious belief.”

I was referring to the not answering of pertinent questions by a poster. Why didn’t you fully quote me? Apparently, you have trouble with copying and pasting. Selectively quoting for advantage is the hallmark of the unscrupulous. Can you imagine the response if as an Atheist, employed such dubious methods?

Then using the misquote you conclude the following: >>>Your argument is then- once the steep ascendancy of Atheism is established and recognised, variants from the norm like religiosity and spiritualism (and lord knows what else) will come to be regarded as psychoses. And presumably damned good business for someone.<<<

The steep ascendancy of Atheism, and religiosity and spiritualism becoming known as psychosis, is not a connection made by me.

I expect a rational response about this.

To make it clear, I consider religion in the same way as the Dawkins book – A delusion. The delusion in some can be serious enough to be a psychosis. Extreme examples are killing abortion doctors or flying planes into building etc. At what point a delusion becomes a psychosis is difficult to establish.

Most people become Atheists through self-help and no one, excepting maybe booksellers, benefits. (Apart from the very happy new Atheist, that is)

David

Actually, David, most people become atheists by being born that way.

(If, not unreasonably, you insist that you can only be an atheist if you at least understand what it is that you lack belief in, then I would restate that as "most people become atheists because they find out about the concept of God, but don't find the evidence compelling enough to believe such a thing exists".)

wizofaus,

“Actually, David, most people become atheists by being born that way.”

I would take that further. All people are born Atheists and then most are subjected to a particular religious indoctrination process to a more or less degree. Some don’t have religion as a given in their lives at all and some others who do, escape it. It’s all a matter of luck in the nature/nurture stakes.

David

Just to keep you up to date after my prayer through Jesus - all the bad things may have stopped in the world ... but I haven't heard yet.

Apparently India lost the cricket due to some bad umpiring errors so the media hasn't had a chance to keep us up to date with the world being cured of all it's ills.

I think the term atheist actually works against atheists - I think we are born pure of any baggage and then the world and people just start loading us up.

I prefer the term "Non- believer but willing to look at evidence" so all children are born as "Non- believer but willing to look at evidence - please do not indoctrinate me with unknowns".

botheration, what makes you think that I am trying 'to win this one'? If it's 'silly to rate animals', why did you bring it up in the first place? In case you forgot, your post included 'I think a narrow-thinking man would think man was the highest creature. A dog would certainly rate dogs as tops'. So, by replying to your statement, you seem to think that I am trying to win. What's that all about?

wizofaus, I used the fly analogy because of your statement 'all species alive today are just as evolved as each other' as a way of rebuttal. BTW, if flies are, as you believe, as succesful as humans, why do they eat what they eat? As for making a 'human judgement', what other kind is there? I don't see animals as being capable of judgement but relying mainly on instinct and learned behaviour. I don't know if I'd like a better sense of smell considering some of the people walking around these days. Some of them smell like fly-food.

Philo, 'If you believe we accidently evolved then there can be no purpose to this planet and to life '. There is no purpose, the universe and all in it just exists. Logic does not demand that we waste it. Why would you think that?