wizofaus,

Not precious at all. Your word of ‘rapid and mine’ of ‘steep ascendancy’ differ very little in meaning. It’s that you had to make a point about it, that I thought unnecessary. The same goes for your use of the phrase, “Atheist evangelism”. Again, unnecessary, and only tends to feed the arsenal of the already prejudiced.

Maybe, care with emphatic language, is the lesson here.

David

David, no-where did I say nothing is known about psychosis. However when you say "enough is understood concerning psychological disorders where variants from the 'norm' can be classified into groups", you confirm what I did say re the workings of the mind and causes of conditions.

Observing symptoms or variants from the norm, and classifying them into groups, is just that.

Earlier you said "maintaining and protecting beliefs in otherworldly concepts..... is a sure sign of psychosis, brought on by religion." Or of a pre-existing psychotic state.

Your argument is then- once the steep ascendancy of Atheism is established and recognised, variants from the norm like religiosity and spiritualism (and lord knows what else) will come to be regarded as psychoses. And presumably damned good business for someone.

All this talk about classifying species into superior or more evolved is not what I introduced by quoting Genesis 2: 15, in this topic.

What I introduced was that man alone is the only species held accountable for his life and behaviour and is held responsible for the care of this Planet. Even the environment movement blames man for his poor management of the environment, or man's poor management of other species. There are no courts managed by other species that make judgments on that species behaviour. When another species like a dog injures a child who makes a decision the dog should be destroyed? Certainly not other dogs!

All life is leaving a footprint in history that affects the future. If you believe we are an accident of chemistry without purpose or a meaningful future, then man's current rape of the environment is just a stage of evolution and will pass even as the wolly mammoth. If you believe we accidently evolved then there can be no purpose to this planet and to life - so it is just possible by logic to believe that while we are here waste it on ourselves. No one is accountable to anyone other than themselves.

If you believe we were placed here purposefully by our designer to nurture all life and manage this planet then we are accountable to that designer. Logic tells us we are here by design, and not by accident.

Philo,

<<Is this because of their limited view of reality?>>

In saying this, you're assuming that everything that in the Bible is reality. Either way, believing that the world is only 6000 years old, and ignoring large chunks of the science of nature, is also a very limited view of reality.

<<Obviously this retards their research, as they make no assumptions, because they havent seen the evidence. All major discoveries in science are made on assumed beliefs acted upon.>>

No. This doesn't retard their reasearch.

Assumptions are made to a certain extent, but are then discarded if no evidence can support it.

This is an important distinction between Atheists and Theists. And blows away any frivolous attempt made by the religious to drag evolutionists down to their own fundamentalist level.

<<So atheists hold no opinions unless they can see it demonstrated in reality.>>

Now you're just inventing the position of others.

To imply that Atheists won't hold an opinion on anything unless it can be demonstrated, is just plain stupid.

<<This places them outside making assumptions like the evolution of life was an accident of natural chemistry - they have not seen such demonstrated.>>

You obviously have a very limited view of what evolution is. Evolution doesn't claim that anything happened by accident.

And yes, evolution has been demonstrated: Bugs becoming resilient to pesticide; bacteria mutating to immunise itself against antibiotics.

<<They do not assume a first cause for existence of matter. they just believe it always existed.>>

No, Atheists don't assume a first cause.

But scientific principals and logic, in regards to life and the universe, suggest that everything starts with a simple entity, and then gradually evolves to something more complex.

Therefore, the idea of everything starting out with something as complex as a God, that has no beginning, raises even more unanswered questions and is more illogical.

<<They have no belief, therefore I suggest we cannot believe a word they want us to believe.>>

That's some pretty poor logic there, Philo.

If someone has no belief, then how can they want you to believe it?

Continued...

...Continued

I could suggest that we don't believe what Theists want us to believe because they can't back it up. That would at least make a lot more sense at least.

<<They obviously believe the stuff they write otherwise they are deluded and not to be believed. They do not believe stuff they read in books - no - if they do they are deluded into a belief.>>

Some more poor logic.

No. Being “deluded” doesn't mean you don't believe what you say/write. It means that you believe something in the face of evidence to the contrary - like religion.

<<Books are the opinions and presumptions of others.>>

Depends on what kind of books you're talking about. If you're talking about books on the science of evolution, then no, they're not just the opinion and presumptions of others.

Any presumptions that they do contain, are hypotheses backed up by mountains of evidence that suggest the bigger picture of evolution.

<<Every person needs hope to give his life meaning. Hope is based in belief. Could I dare to suggest atheists have no hope because this is a belief in the future. Atheists are really hopeless people if life goes bad for them.>>

If religion gives you hope then good for you. But it is arrogant to assume that the all hope lies in religion. Nor does this does prove the existence of a God.

<<They are locked into their body chemistry and absorbed by and destroyed by it -.how dull - they have no spirituality.>>

It's highly arrogant, and narrow-minded to assume that spirituality can only come from religion, and that anyone who doesn't believe as you do, is devoid of any sort of spirituality.

<<To them life is meaningless and accidental merely to appease the sensual appetites of their body. To me life has purpose and design and that means self sacrifice and moral boundaries.>>

The suggestion that we need a higher power looking over us to do what is right, is insulting. And anyone whose moral actions are derived from this notion, is undeserving of any credit.

What are the three things that should never be discussed... religion, religion, religion... Ha! I love it.

The problem that I have with religious people is not that they are religious. Hopefully we are free to believe what we wish. This discussion proves that to at least some degree we live in a free society because in many countries some people here would have been arrested on the absurd & trumped up charge of blasphemy. Some of the Christians would have been arrested for their beliefs.

What I just can't grasp is how they can look at this world and believe that their God intercedes on a daily basis OR shows us love!

Why doesn't God help the starving and poor people , stop the torture and terror, cure the terminally ill & disease, stop the attrocities & the oppression in the world? He can!

Why doesn't God accept that he was right - free will was a crazy plan (if that is the cause of our problems) - OK God please fix things and show yourself to us!

Why doesn't God reveal himself to us? It makes no sense!

If God knows all things before they occur and our reactions why would he create the tree of knowledge of good and evil? - he already knew we would fail!

Why knowing that we would fail would God then blame the serpent and the woman? The free will argument just doesn't make sense as he knew we would fail with free will! He knows everything!

Come on God show yourself to the world... your experiment has been the success you knew it would be... You and your followers claim you to be omni everything...

I can't wait to meet my alleged maker... he has some serious questions to answer to me!

Jesus said "Ask and you shall receive" OK Jesus through you I ask that you stop all the horrors of this world, you show yourself to us and you save us all for any mistakes we made!

I look forward to your prompt reply!