Ever dutiful, I follow Boaz's link to Wikipedia's article on Wahhabism.

And what do I find? The banner headline:

"The neutrality of this article is disputed. Please see the discussion on the talk page.(December 2007). Please do not remove this message until the dispute is resolved."

The summary on the talk page is that "the whole article needs to be rewritten since the current one is POV and lacking reliable sources."

"POV", Boaz, is Wiki-speak for the innate bias on matters provided by someone with a single "point of view"

So it is with some regret that I must decline your offer of "education", based, as it is, on a simple extension of your own fears and prejudices.

As an agnostic, I might equitably engage the world of Islam, when I see churches and synagogues being built in Saudi Arabia et al at the same rate mosques are built in the western world?

Frank, You have called me a person without integrity and intelligence. Been called worse.

You use the phrase “massive migration” about the Moors when the proper term should be “invasion.” Note that you talk of the “colonization of Muslim Africa by European countries” but don’t apply the term to Islamic conquests (jihad) between the 7th-18th century?

You say Powell was a racist. Here is a quote: “the Conservative Party's policy is that all who are in this country as citizens should be equal before the law and that there shall be no discrimination or difference made between them by public authority.” He knew he would be castigated for his words: “I can already hear the chorus of execration. How dare I say such a horrible thing?” yet he said what he believed.

My statement about “massive immigration” of Muslims is correct. Check out France.

Regarding your “Who? When? Where?” to my statement “Muslim values are not our values, unless you love/respect a person that…” I assume you are joking. I refer to Islam’s great prophet , Muhammad. Now that I have identified the man, would you care to comment on 1. If Muslims do not love/respect him, or 2. If he murdered, looted, enslaved, tortured and raped.

Corri, Oh my god, are the Brethrens and Opus Dei preaching hate and violence too? Please send pictures of them marching in the street calling for the death of non-brethern and non-opuscatholics.

This is a good thread. The issue is important and not going away. There are many challenges ahead, but one of the greatest and most lethal is Islam. Islam is not just a religion, it is a total ideology of hate and domination. Things are worse in France, UK and Holland, but it will come to Australia and the US. Almost half of Britain’s mosques are under the control of Muslims that loathe the West and that call on Muslims to kill for Allah
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2402973.ece
These people are not nice people. Witness events among the Australian Muslim community. It is only a matter of time and numbers.

Kactuz

Corri - anything is possible - however if we conduct ourselves properly jihad is unlikely.

There are however latter day Koranic Scholars who irresponsibly insist on highlighting the text of the Koran that implies inherent violence and expansionary ideals - much in the same way Chritianity once worked ( now there's a brutal and blood thirsty history if ever there was one)

These same ding bats also jump up and down about the primitive nature of Islam and say how it is trapped in the dark ages - in same cases yes - but in many cases - in fact most this is untrue. The muslim world was once the most enlightened civilisation of its time - in much the same way we in the west claim to be now.

If we activley engage with Islam peacful co-existence is achievable - but if those who simply point to the differences between us and them rather than the similarities tension will increase.

The situation was not helped by our past leaders who insisted very publicly that Muslims needed to adopt our values or bugger off - they were singled out as being intransigent - what a great way to foster harmony in a population already feeling sopme what vilified.

sneeeeky....

The number of myths flying around that noggin of yours reminds me of flying ants and moths around a lone globe on a realllly bad hot summer nite.

I'm a gonna try to swat a few of them to save you from yourself old son.

"If we conduct ourselves properly" ?(by a few hundred) if ever there was a "fall down at their feet and pleaaaaad for mercy example of begging"...that was it.

5min later...

Ok.. my blood is off the boil..and can return to this post :)

"Latter day Quranic Scholars" ?
"Irresponsibly?"
"Highlighting?"

Mate.. if the cap fits..wear it. If there's dog on the pot.. its dog you eat.

The simple fact.. undeniable (but often disputed by those with an interest in 'taming' the reality of Islam for reasons of converting others)
is that in terms of
-natural meaning.
-Historical background.
-Standard interpretation (no great gymnastics involved)
-Corroborated by other equally valid Islamic testimony/Documents.
-Natural Context (including the order of revelation.. latest)

The 9th surah of the Quran alone....is blatantly 'warlike' against Christians and Jews. It had an 'immediate' context (those were said to have broken treaties) and an abiding context (where statements are made which apply irrespective of the circumstance of the day)

Now..feel free to call a duck a chicken.. but the rest of us will stick to truth :)

Regarding your little 'attack' on Christianity..I challenge you to find anything similar USING THE SAME criteria as above in any of Jesus teaching or example. The simple fact is....it doesn't exist. So please don't just throw mud hoping it will stick.

SapperK9, are you sure you are agnositic? If so, your degree in religious studies has certainly been well earned.

>>As an agnostic, I might equitably engage the world of Islam, when I see churches and synagogues being built in Saudi Arabia et al at the same rate mosques are built in the western world?<<

As an agnostic, why would you worry? What possible basis of concern could you have? Should you not respect the right of the country to conduct its affairs as it sees fit?

The fact that we, in contrast, respect individuals, and protect their rights to individual expression and freedom of speech should, surely, be a good thing?

Personally, I would find it difficult to live in a country that feels the need to place limits on these freedoms. Even more difficult, if the State were to insist that one religion is so much "better" than another, that it is virtually compulsory.

The absence of this exertion of power through thought-control is, of course, one of the really attractive aspects of Australia, wouldn't you think?

And Boaz, this comment says more about you than it does about sneekepete, at whom it was aimed:

>>"If we conduct ourselves properly" ?(by a few hundred) if ever there was a "fall down at their feet and pleaaaaad for mercy example of begging"...that was it.<<

Here you associate good behaviour, politeness, respect for another person's views - which I read into the phrase "conduct ourselves properly" - with abject fear and personal humiliation.

That is sad. Very sad. To live with that level of fear on a daily basis must be extremely hard on you.

No wonder you find it necessary to beat your children.