Our intelligence agency is a joke. I'm sure not all of them in there are incompetent, but there are enough of them to be a danger to Australians. When I read about the criminals inside the Central Intelligence Agency, I usually try to take heart and have faith in the naive thought, "not in my country." But alas, our agents appear to be mere lackeys who don't know the first thing about integrity or honour. What a disgrace: This is not confined to ASIO though, since the AFP have been shown to be equally disgusting in the Haneef case. This war on terror is a scam and is a cancer to our security. None of us are safe when our own government acts in this manner and employ lying thieves to fill their ranks.

ASIO doctored Habib files, court told
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,22862895-2702,00.html

Dear Steel,

Welcome to the real world. When American Vice-President Dick Cheney said that the 'war on terrorism' could last for fifty years or more, his words evoked George Orwell's great prophetic work, 'Nineteen Eighty-Four.' We are to live with the threat and illusion of endless war, it seems, in order to justify increased social control and state repression, while great power pursues its goal of global supremacy.
Washington is transformed into 'chief city of Airstrip One' and every problem is blamed on the 'enemy,' the evil Goldstein, as Orwell called him. He could be Osama bin Laden, or his successors, the
'axis of evil.' Or Hicks, or Haneef.

Don't forget that ASIO functioned under the instructions of the former PM.

In the novel, three slogans dominate society: war is peace, freedom is slavery and ignorance is strength. Today's slogan, 'war on terrorism,' also reverses meaning. The war is terrorism. The most potent weapon in this 'war' is pseudo-information, different only in form from that Orwell described, consigning to oblivion unacceptable truths and historical sense. Dissent is permissable within 'consensual' boundaries, reinforcing the illusion that information and speech are 'free.'

The attacks of September 11, 2001 did not 'change everything,' but accelerated the continuity of events, providing an extraordinary pretext for destroying social democracy. The undermining of the Bill of Rights in the US and the further dismantling of trial by jury in
Britain.

yes and worse. but until you stop complaining and start doing something about it, are you any better?

there's two things that need doing. the first is to get control of the nation away from parliament. the second is to use the power of democracy to ensure justice within the nation and respect for others outside.

this is not hard to do. peaceful revolution is possible, it needs only will and patience.

Dear Demos,

"Nineteen Eighty-Four," might have been a fantasy and a parody for George Orwell, however, enough reality already exists as you agree, to constitute a warning to Australia. But what is necessary is not a
'peaceful revolution' as you put it, but carefully designed legal responses. That's what's urgently needed.

Technologically, there is little to prevent State authorities gaining access to intimate details about everyone in society. Our present defences against this happening are political and cultural. There are few legal inhibitions.

We live in nothing like a 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' society, but it is chilling to think what a person could do with technology if our society turned sour.

Government departments holding information on people have secrecy constraints, but these controls are very flexibly administered.

For example, police might be given information from a government department because it is felt to be a good thing to be helping the police. Every public servant knows someone in another branch and, in practice, much information is exchanged.

Apart from police, there's the field of education. School records for example have increased their coverage in recent years, and may include information about IQ's, family relationships, health, learning difficulties and disciplinary problems.

Immigration and Ethnic Affairs... Records are kept on immigrants, and travellers in and out of the country. This information is fed from the department to agencies such as ASIO.

Taxation - personal records other than tax returns are maintained in cases of investigation into a taxpayer's affairs.

Banks - A customer record card is kept, giving an overview of the customer's relationship with the bank. Their credit-worthiness etc.

ASIO - maintains files on persons 'of interest,' for security reasons.

Credit Bureaus and the Dept. of Social Security - records are kept on all recipients... and the lists go on.

Federal legislation is required to prohibit the use of listening devices or secret surveillance without people's consent. Current laws need to be reviewed...

ASIO is not in the business of letting the letter of the law hinder it's objectives.If an organisation such as this has to hurdle our present legal system,then it is virtually useless.During times of war lots of illegal things happen.People get assinated and killed by mistake.

I think that to a degree,organisations such as ASIO have to work outside the law,paricularily in our system which favours the criminal.

A secret report from within the Guild:

" ... Post *EVENT* status confirmed - Pray continue with our *Blessing* ... "

LuvDoveLuvDoveLuvDove
HoT
HoT
HoT

Spare the *Bali Bombers*
&
mandi sama *Nabi Isa* sebelum jadi *Hari Natal* lagi.

...JA'Lobo...

Arjay, This comment of yours is startling as it implies the death of someone like Habib at the hands of our government (indirectly or not) would not disturb you in the slightest, an attitude I think you would find common in violent regimes or countries with a secret police.

Stuff The Bali Bombers. What type of Aussie would not want to see them shot.
As far as complaining about ASIO who cares what they do to these low lifes that plot to kill our familes and blow up ur kids.

Good on Howard and ASIO for taking a strong stand to protect us.
There are far too many Muslims living in Australia- and others complaining about us.

P off back where you came from the lot of you and get off our forums.

For the record I couldnt care less what they have to do to those low lifes to make them talk.

I pray every day for the families of the Bali victims.
Thats whats important.

Another thing- I think many Muslims living in Australia THINK Aussies are push overs.
Not so
They are just watching and waiting.

You came to OUR country and you were made welcome.
In return all most have done is complain complain complain.

Well listen up because I have got news for you.
Aussies take a lot then bite back.

Many Aussies have had enough of you saying its your country too and this and that must change.

Its not yur country but you can live here if! you behave and show some appreciation.

When I walk past you I would like to see you bow to the ground and say praise Taryn because it was her father and grandfather who fought to keep Australia FREE.

What a pretty name is Tarwyn. And what a big heart you have... it must be big to hold so much hate. Where does that come from ? But then there's hope still - if you can hate, then possibly with education you can learn to open up your heart to people who are different to you. I hope so for your sake. For you see Tarwyn - hate has a nasty habit of eating anything that is good - inside you. Thereby doing you a great deal of damage as a human being.

Minority groups have always had a history of intolerance. The Irish, the various national groups from Europe. The Asians, and now the Muslims et cetera. That's nothing new. And over the years we've worked things out in this country. Blaming an entire group of people for what a small minority in their midst does is wrong.

Not all Muslims are Bali bombers. Same as not all Germans were Nazis.
Or all Russians are Communists. Or all Australians - blatant racists.

Sure we've got issues that we need to work out in this country - we're a young country - with a lot to learn. Your racism is based on fear. Not a physical fear, but some kind of fear that is unrealistic. You seem to need somebody to kick in the guts.

You seem to want migrants who are here to go home. I think you're scared that they're taking over our country, well rest easy - nobody is doing that. The media doesn't help by focusing its attention on certain groups, giving you the wrong impression.

My father and my grandfather - gave their lives also - as did many others who came from other lands to make this one their own. They've paid their dues and have earned the right to call themselves - Australians. Before you tarnish everyone with the same dirty brush, think about what you're saying, and most importantly what it's doing to you inside. A person with such a lovely name shouldn't be carrying so much hatred inside.

TarynW: "When I walk past you I would like to see you bow to the ground and say praise Taryn because it was her father and grandfather who fought to keep Australia FREE."

Bizarre. How utterly, totally and egocentrically screwy is that?

How poisonously hateful and xenophobic. I'm always kind of surprised when I strike this kind of tripe, because it's rarely expressed in real life.

Then again, I don't listen to shock jocks or hang out with racists boofheads.

On topic - Steel, I doubt that ASIO is any more incompetent nor subject to political manipulation than any other government agency. But we really wouldn't know, would we?

foxy, none of the things you would like to happen are going to happen without my peaceful revolution. it's hard for mice to bell the cat, but waiting for the cat to bell himself is foolish.

as you have outlined, the tools of authoritarian rule are growing in number and range. only a countering will for freedom can stop the slide into a real '1984'. ozzies haven't got that will, the result of being raised as subjects, people without power to participate in policy formation. the issue is still in doubt, but as long as you don't grasp the futility of hoping to be saved by some outside agency there can be little doubt of the outcome. you must save yourself, the fairy godmother is busy in africa.

I would have more trust in ASIO than any of the open border brigade found on this forum.

There are at least seven ways to take control of a Nation.

1. By terrorist violence and civil war - subdue the will of the people.
2. By war - invasion - and kill the opponents
3. By overseas ownership - of raw materials, Energy resourses, Major Companies, the food supply, water sources and fertile land. (Petrodollars are one way to purchase shareholding)
4. By removing education and keep them ignorant so they do not develop their creative talent.
5. Army Installed Dictator.
6. Populate it with adherents to the ideology.
7. Convert its population to the one's values, ideas and lifestyle.
_____________________________________________

Australia will be taken over gradually by a population explosion of Muslims (# 6). That is a non-violent method. You can afford to be nice people because you know in 40 - 60 years you will have outpopulated the former settlers. As a majority you can change the constitution and install shari'ah laws. Western democracy allowing personal and religious equality and freedoms are in direct conflict to the eternal laws of Allah. His laws must reign supreme in all the Earth. The mission is install the laws of Allah in all the Earth.

The freedoms of Western Democracy is fast dying because of the lie we are told by the likes of the Grens that the Earth is overpopulated. The thing is per head of population supporters of Western Democratic society have less than half the number of children of Muslim families.

The gross increase of childless couples, lesbians and homosexuals in Western Democratic Countries because of their preference for affluent lifestyles and selfish pleasure will ultimately allow personal freedoms to be removed.

If the "freedoms of western democracy" are fast dying philo, that is because everyone, including your lot, are too scared of muslims to accept them. You are too busy trying to vilify them and protect yourselves to even begin a dialogue with them.

Here's a Christian idea for you: You cannot convert them if you cannot accept them.

As for their children, if your ideas seem nuttier than their own terror nuts and they learn that they will never be accepted by you, why would they ever want to talk to you?

In some cases, terrorism begins at home, not on a foreign battlefield- ask yourself why and try and be humble about it for Christ's sake.

The fact is the Christian Church is having more interaction with Muslims than any other community group. You see - we want to have them more informed about Christ their prophet. The sad fact is that for them to convert to another faith even in Australia means they risk death which is enforced in their religious community. So conversions are few and far less than their birth rate.

How would anyone know if ASIO is corrupt, much less incompetent or dangerous? Ppphleeeaaasse. Theye are secret!

We have a islamo sympathiser jump on olo to espouse this crap and for good measure they lay the boot into the feds as well. Nice one!

Mate if your lunatic religion didnt go around blowing people up then they wouldnt be under investigation. Australians would be forgiven for being a bit muslim shy.

Let no one ever, ever forget that your mates killed 88 of our mates in Bali and I for one wouldnt give a toss how many muslims ASIO has to attach battery leads to testicles to stop that happening again.

Australia needs to have a referendum on the topic of where we take our refugees and immigrants from and what constitutes deportation as a first offence.

To denigrate the valuable and life saving work of ASIO and AFP whos men and women put thier lives on the line to protect scum like the person who started this thread is disgusting.

But then again its what one has come to expect from the islamophilia infected socialists that would rather see us slaughtered like lambs by the scum they protect.

Dear Scotty,

I'm frightened. Not for myself, but for you. When people are in a state of hostility, each tends to 'demonize' the other and attributes all manner of wickedness to the 'opposing' side.

For example, Iranians tend to demonize Iraqis, and Iraqis tend to demonize Iranians; Israelis tend to demonize Syrians, and Syrians tend to demonize Israelis. What is often striking to outside observers is the similarity of each side's images of the other.

You see yourself - in one way, but how do you suppose - you appear to others?

Dearest Foxy,

I personally dont care one bit what you leftist loonbags or potential terrorists think of me.

Your mob are leftists before your Australians at best your traitors to your own people.

Im sure your parents are proud.

Id like to send you a white feather.

The scabarous, decrepit underbelly of Australia rears it's ugly head. What does it look like? Fear. Parnaoia. Hate. Blindness. Ignorance. Intolerance.

You have all of those traits in spades SCOTTY. The terrorists have won in your case. You are cowardly and spineless, like TarynW. I don't pity you, because you're a danger to your fellow citizens and your paranoia, hatred and ignorance is a deliberate choice.

Let me be short and to the point:

You and TarynW are fools. Jack Roche contacted ASIO three times in 2000. He "had the phone numbers, addresses and email contacts for the Malaysian-born terrorist Hambali, operations chief for the Indonesian militant group Jemaah Islamiah, and for al-Qa'ida mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed"

Do you know who Hambali is? Do you know who Khalid Sheik Mohammed is?

> "Hambali, who WENT ON TO MASTERMIND THE 2002 BALI BOMBINGS before his eventual arrest in Thailand in 2003, and September 11 plotter Mohammed are now being held at the Guantanamo Bay facility in Cuba"

In other words, HAD NOT ASIO IGNORED ROCHE, Bali and perhaps even September 11, 2001, COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED.

Got that you retard?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22865533-5001561,00.html
December 04, 2007

This of course is on par with the catastrophic failure to see through the lies about Iraq's WMD capability. I didn't believe the lies. How could they put Australian security and honour at risk by being part of an aggressive, illegal foreign war? Too easily. They went along with assesments of known, corrupt agencies and countries with foreign policy infamous for it's hypocrisy, criminality and flagrant self-interest.

And now we hear of them betraying innocent Australian citizens like Habib to foreigners who kidnapped him to be tortured or executed against the bedrock principles that our western civilisation was founded upon. Or like the AFP, conspiring to deprive Haneef from the rightful liberty granted him by a magistrate, an enforcer of law and justice.

Steel,

Your a terrorist sympathiser and as such are not fit to live in my country.

I'm pretty confident ASIO's got your number.

Habib got what was coming to him, these things happen when your a terrorist. Its a shame Haneef didnt get the same treatment.

Got that retard!

Dear Scotty,

How can you pin labels on people when you know nothing about them.
You're calling me 'leftist' and referring to 'my mob.'

I don't belong to any 'mob.' And my views are my own. I'm not left or right. I like to think logically and objectively. Or at least I try. And then I make up my mind. I cringe at 'labels.' Because I feel very strongly that whether we choose to destroy our civilization or save it, it is a collective decision - and one that may well be made within our lifetimes. I don't judge you. I'm simply disappointed.
Because if you really want to solve any problem - you don't do it by alienating the people you may want to reach. Especially the moderates in the group.

Instead of preaching hatred and pointing fingers we can divert our energy and resources to the real problems that face us. including poverty and disease in this country, injustice, oppression, and the devastation of our natural environment.

We may hope and trust that our ultimate choice will be to enhance the life on this beautiful brown land on which all of us 20 million share our adventure.

AJLEBreton..

Not sure what you were trying to say in that little burst of Indo/Malay... but it seems to mean "bathe as the prophet Jesus did before Christmas again" ? to which I ask 'HUH' ? Try english :)

STEEL/FOXY... this is a most interesting topic actually. Let me see if I understand the 'non Muslim/Western/Individualist' meaning you blokes are referring to.

<<
1/ The threat of war, and the constant pointing to an 'enemy' is good for strong government, stripping the masses willingly of many of their freedoms.
2/ The 'enemy' we hear about each day, is not real, but more an invention of the abovementioned oligarchy for the abovementioned objectives.
>>

Have I got it right there ?

Now.. IF....that were so,

1/ could you please explain to me the many many terror attacks on Western, including Australian interests and people ?

2/ The other problem with this idea, is that:
a) We have 13 men in Melbourne, and 11 in Sydney soon coming to trial for allegedly plotting terrorist acts against us. (If ur in Melbourne, come along with me in Feb to the trial.. see them for yourselves)

b) The 'foundation documents' of the 'enemy' are abundantly clear, that they view the non 'them' world as being 'infidels, deluded, perverse, and in serious need of being fought in war, to bring in the rule of Allah.

Surah 9:29 in the Quran is basically a declaration of unending war against non 'them' peoples in the name of their religion.

Now.. while SOME members of SOME branches of that faith do NOT subscribe to the last point. MANY do, and MANY (yes..I'm shouting) are prepared to take up arms for that cause. The issue for us is.. "how many is...'many'?" and... "are they a real threat or imaginary?"

I conclude from considerable reading and research that they are not only many, but also a real threat.
if you conclude differently, I'd like to see evidence to support your claim.
cheers.

Dear BD,

Fanatics exist in every religious group. And hatred is preached from many sources. All you have to do is study history to see this.

Criminals don't just come from one group. They are numerous and of a variety of persuasions. The Russell Street bombing in Melbourne was not done by Muslims. We have robberies, murders, rapes, all over the country, all you have to do is read the daily newspapers and watch the news on television - crimes are committed on a regular basis - by a variety of criminals. It does not mean we have to target a particular group.

Foxy,

Its a bit of a stretch to compare australian career criminals to religious fanatics that we have imported voluntarily.

The big difference here is that now we are much more empowered with the knowledge that Muslims are dangerous to our society and as such ergo: should be at the bottom of the list of potential immigrants or refugees to our lands.

As for career criminals well they have been part and parcel of how heritage going back to the bushrangers.. Give me a Ned Kelly before a Mohhamed Haneef anyday at the very least they are a lot easier to catch and normally catch and kill thier own first.

You sound very much like a socialist/leftist to me madam.

You speak of thinking logically, how could you by defending terrorists, that is not logical that is insane my dear woman.

The days are near upon us when we may have to insist on the Mussilman to leave our country because they are to dangerous to live amongst us. Better we stop the flood now to make it easier to get rid of this evil amongst us.

I see Foxy! You argue for Australia to increase the incidents of violence, civil war and crime because it is part of human history - because it happens anyway by passionate people in all societies.

How about seperating the warring factions? Ever heard of borders? Ever heard of Border controll? Perhaps there is very good reason to segregate conflicting ideologies. There are those who will impose their will on others without consent or by violence.

Dear Scotty,

I can see that you've made up your mind about things, even though as I said before, you know nothing about me.

So be it. I can only be responsible for my own thoughts and actions.
Certainly not yours.

But, I disagree with you. Bad things are done in the name of religion. But it's not all people that do them.
I was raised as a Catholic, and I heard many a biased sermon from the pulpit in my church that made me cringe.

I wish you well Scotty, and one day - when your turn comes to answer to a Higher Authority (as we all will have to do), I hope that your explanations will be acceptable.

It wasn't till about 7yrs ago that I learnt that one of our classroom nerds became head of ASIO.He has since long gone.Talk about the man most unlikely.He was the person everyone loved to hate.

The trouble is that all the do gooding lefties who suckle off the public purse,think that the real world will should conform to their expectations,well sor-ry.

Back in the early eighties the late Tim Bristow enforcer and criminal used to come to an RSL in which I worked and we had to expel him every Saturday night in a nice way,so we could get some sleep.He told us stories you wouldn't believe about pollies and people in high society.The then Labor Govt according to him was corrupt all the way to the the top.It always fascinated me as to why Tim had not been assassinated by the his enemies.The reality was that he had so much dirt on pollies and powerful people,that no one dared.

In his defence,Tim was also a man of principle who did a lot of good in his local community.There is always a blurred line between good and evil.Sometimes we have to use illegal means to circumvent the politically correct legal disease which is more of a cancer on our society than ASIO could ever be.

Steel I don't agree with you, our intelligence agency is not a joke!

I forgot to add that I think ASIO is no better or worse than any other Federal Bureau of Investigation, or Central Intelligence Agency. They have a job to do, and they do it.

As in any federal security investigative agency. The agency is as honest as the people in it. And because of the type of work that is involved the public will never know what really goes on in the organization. It's up to the Government to monitor the agency and set up the controls of what it can or can't do.

Is Tim Bristow dead? Shucks.

I knew him in my youth, and he was certainly a good person to be on the right side of. Tim was about the only real 'gangster' that I've ever met, but he always kind of looked out for us young grommets of the time. Vale Tim.

Foxy and the other poster branding me names.
I note your concern for my two girls who were victims of a racist cruel attack.
I think that displays your true motives on this forum.

Had I of said my two Muslim girls were attacked by Aussie boys you wuld have been "so supportive"

You are clearly terrorits yourself if you support this behavouir then have the hide to call me names for standing up for my kids in my country.
People like you make me sick.

Try having your kids spat on called names and attacked and see how YOU feel
"Your compassion is noted."

Why dont you go and live in these countries that except this as normal behavouir.
Discusting attitude.

And- And Through it all I am STILL very good friends with my Muslim Neighbours who actually NOW walk the girls to the beach.

WE dont need people like the ones who attacked my girls in this country and we certainly dont need people who couldnt care less! what happend to them either.

Go find another country to live- your sickening.

Dear Taryn,

Did you not read my post where I expressed my concern for you?
I guess you see only what you want to see my dear. And there lies the problem.

As for my going back to where I came from? Hello? I was born here, this is my country. My family has fought in two wars, we've paid our dues...

Where do you come from? Why don't we start sending back all the people that disagree with us - you go first!

As for your daughters - of course they have my sympathy for what happened to them. But as you pointed out - and I'm glad you did. You're still friendly with your Muslim neighbours - who offered to walk with your girls. That just proves the point I was trying to make - it's only a small minority of 'thugs' that behave badly. And 'thugs' come in all groups of people. And should be treated accordingly when they break the law of this country.

If we would just listen to each other - instead of name calling, then perhaps we'd see that we do have more in common than you realize.

Foxy
Fair Enough Point Taken.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Be a good boy Ozzie

Thanks Taryn. Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.
And may 2008 be a good year for us all.

Kind Regards...