Boaz, sex with children is illegal because children don't have the same status as adults under the law - we accept that they generally do not have the life experience and maturity to make informed, consensual decisions. Even here, there are blurred lines - do you think it should be illegal for an 18-yo to have sex with a 17-yo, given that one is an adult and one not?

mjbp - no, I don't think interracial marriages were ever explicitly illegal in Australia, although there were cases in the 19th century of the police inventing spurious charges in order to prevent couples from engaging in such marriages. In the US and elsewhere, interracial marriages were quite definitely against the law.

Hi Michael,

Don't forget that those people who abused you were pedophiles, not gay. This is a hugely important point.

I have a friend who was sexually abused by an Australian government employee when he was a ward of the state at 12 years old, so I understand your anger and sorrow. I agree we need to put some pressure on the Rudd government now to do some basic things – a formal apology, and compensation, for a start.

If others want to lobby the new federal government about the Forgotten Australians, see http://www.clan.org.au/pages/template_pages.php?master_page_id=12&pageID=67

I always read your posts Michael and feel so sorry for what you have been through. I will try my best to help you fight for your most basic rights.

PS There's no evidence that says gay couples would have gay children. The vast majority of gay men and woman are born to a heterosexual couples. The biggest problem for the children of gay couples is societal prejudice.

Boaz, your syllogism needs a little work there buddy. You could substitute any illegal thing for "sex with children". Plus you missed Foxy's point about civil rights. Obviously sex with children pretty thoroughly violates their civil rights, so it's irrelevant to the gay marriage debate. Protecting children from sexual exploitation is codified in international and domestic law. Morally, it is something on which pretty much everyone in this country agrees on – atheists, believers – even Catholics. We need to worry about people who break the law, but we don't need to worry too much about losing the law itself – and if we ever do, i will join you in the streets for a fight to the death in defending it.

It has nothing to do with gay marriage. In this entire thread, people have claimed homosexuality is morally wrong, yet no one has mounted an argument in support of that, other than "I reckon" or "the bible says". There is no argument. Small cultural changes can have large ramifications? Of course – both positive and negative. Where's your argument?

Philo: "... homosexuals are fertile males capable of producing children.."

I meant to alert Philo earlier to the existence of homosexual females. They are commonly known as lesbians.

Interesting that Philo, as a creationist fundy, should also cite evolution.

While I'm aware that he was (unsuccessfully) trying to be clever, it's occurred to me before now that homosexuality could well be adaptive in evolutionary terms under certain circumstances - as in cases where the population of a species exceeds the carrying capacity of its habitat. It's one explanation for the universality of homosexuality in nature, and in the case of Homo sapiens homesexuality could very well be adaptive in today's overpopulated world.

jpw - interesting application of Godwin's Law. I've always found it kind of creepy that when topics like homosexuality or pornography are discussed in forums like this, it's only a matter of time before the fundies start talking about sex with children.

Are demands for 'legal equality' more to do with money than anything else? There is absolutely nothing to stop consenting adults living with one another and doing everything else together - so the only problem would appear to be a financial one.
I have a 'gay' cousin who has recently 'married' his partner of 28 years in the UK - they will remain there rather than return here purely for financial reasons.

I think gay people want to get married for the same spread of reasons that heterosexual people want to get married. To advertise their coupledom, to solidify their commitment, to express their love, to have kids, to be each other legal guardians in case of accident or death. Financial arrangements form one part, but not the only part, of the desire to marry.

The cultural imprimatur is vital – particularly in a culture that frequently prohibits gay people from expressing their love.

I have to say, the only problem left with gay marriage is purely a language one: "I now pronounce you husband and husband"? Who's the bride and who's the groom?

But one day we will have an Aboriginal lesbian president who will be able to proudly thank her wife for her support, and no-one will blink an eye. I hope I live to see it.