Good ol *educated* CJ... frothing at the mouth about "(Its just about) supporting minority groups"

well.. minority groups can have all manner of morality or lack thereof, and THAT...is the key issue. (I would have thought an 'educated' person would realize this :)

Failing to identify the negative long term social implications of particular sexual choices, (yes.. thats what I said -'choices') is shallow, and irresponsible.

-Neo Nazi's are a'minority group'
-Practicioners of Female Genital Mutilation are a 'minority group'.
-"The Family" formerly the children of God, David Moses and child molesting crowd are a 'minority group'....

The issue is..and always will be "morality". The attempt by gay activists like CJ (quacks like a... must be a) to de 'moralize' the issue is deceptive and dangerous.

The linking of Gay behavior to Paedophiles may not seem so obvious to those who feel comfortable about homosexual behavior, but the issue is not the LINK..... or lack of, but the METHOD used by the gay lobby and now being used by the child sex lobby (Nambla, and a Dutch Political Party) to advance their cause and make it socially acceptable.

We either 'have' limits to acceptable behavior..or we don't. If it just depends on the loudest voices welllllllll.... look out mama... I see the apocalypse heading our way fast.

jpw2040: " runner worships at the altar of intolerance"

Nice way of putting it - I would say that other Christian fundies like Philo and Boazy do as well. Mjpb too, although s/he's usually a bit cleverer at using weasel words to appear saner than their obviously loopy cohorts.

Boazy: "-Neo Nazi's are a'minority group'
-Practicioners of Female Genital Mutilation are a 'minority group'.
-"The Family" formerly the children of God, David Moses and child molesting crowd are a 'minority group'...."

Good ol *boofheaded* Boazy... frothing at the mouth about his homophobia yet again.

I didn't say I support all minority groups. For example, the Open Brethren and their Exclusive Brethren cohorts are secretive cults of very strange fundy hypocrites who seem very similar to "The Family" and other weirdo sects.

" I see the apocalypse heading our way fast"

I truly hope it reaches you soon.

Civil rights have long been protected in the constitutional democracies of Western Europe. These nations include France, Great Britain, Switzerland, and the Scandinavian countries. Personal liberties are also secure in such newer democracies as - Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and the United States.

If these rights against discrimination are there to protect minority groups and ensure equal rights and opportunities for all people regardless of race, sex, religion, age or disability - then that surely must include the civil rights of gay partnerships?

This is not a moral or religious issue - but one that deals with the civil rights of people.

Just as one of the most bitter civil rights campaigns was that of Black Americans in the United States, who campaigned for equal rights from the 1800s. This campaign continued through the 1900s, and led to a major protest movement during the 1950s and 1960s which resulted in important civil rights legislation to end discrimination against black Americans. Isn't it time that legislation be passed, recognising the civil rights of gays - to end discrimination against them?

The United Nations General Assembly adopted a Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948. It states that all people are born free and are equal in dignity and rights. Nowhere does it say that it excludes gays. And, many experts in international law believe that the declaration has high moral authority.

Hey.i've been married 3 times and the first 2 might have been better if i had married someone of the same sex.I'm damn sure they wouldn't have been worse.What does it matter if you are the same sex if you love and respect each other.Their is no law against living together so let gays marry.It won't affect our lives.

Foxy.... you said:

"This is not a moral or religious issue - but one that deals with the civil rights of people."

Lets follow that 'logic' though a few more steps.

1/ Homosexual behavior is not a moral issue.
2/ It used to be illegal, but due to political activism, it was legalized.
3/ Sex with children is illegal.
4/ Due to political activism, this could change in the same manner using the same methods.

Now this is where we need Pericles 'finger'.. the one which points to things 1 by 1.

But lets humor you and agree hypothetically "its not a moral issue"

Then..it is at least a 'cultural' issue. Hindsight is always 20/20 and we usually realize where we went wrong by seeing it down the track, where we say "Oh..perhaps if we did it differently this or that might not have happened"

I've used the Cape York illustration to the nth degree, but I don't mind using it again :) specially for those who may not have see it before.

http://books.google.com/books?id=13PoxT8kufEC&pg=PA116&lpg=PA116&dq=steel+axes+for+stoneage+australians&source=web&ots=cM3qJzEApg&sig=6d4PelwGXtF_rRR_1-C1rk8Q1SU#PPA116,M1
that link sums it up pretty well (the point of the original article)

"small cultural changes can have HUGE HUGE detrimental ramifications to a society and culture"

We can learn from this, and use the experience as a tool for predicting other possible side effects of 'small changes' to our culture.

hi to all the forgotten australians well if a person is gay so be it their is nothing we can do about it yet i only hope they are not the gay --uckers that were raping and abusing us victims of the forgotten australians we were the victims of the most horriffic rapes and abuse and slavery endured upon us by employees who worked for the australian goverment in these institutions through out australia , i can only hope that mr rudd will not sweep this under the carpet as had mr howard , we are real vitims and still living and fight for justice for those who are no longer with us and those who are becoming new forgotten australians we are the forgotten australians and we will no longer be forgotten ,and to any of you out their who don't care what we suffered well i can only hope that you never have to go through life as we have or anything happens to any of your loved ones or friends as then you will know how we feel , 2 questions if gat couples have children are those children going to be gay when they get older no one will know until they reach their later years regards micheal