Maybe God just has multiple personality disorder. Or Bipolar.

boaz, I think you'll find those sordid claims about Gandhi come from less than reputable sources.

And your comment: "There is not a lot to be gained by comparing the goodness or works of mankind... sure we can learn from them...so in that sense its good, but the Biblical view is that we are (except for God's forgiving grace in Christ) alienated and fallen."

Is at the very core of the problem with Christianity. There is everything to be gained from comparing the goodness and works of mankind. This is what I meant when I said the contents were infinitely more important than the label.

Why waste time categorising yourself into a religion, when the priority of any remotely worthwhile god would be for you to 'walk the walk' as I mentioned earlier.

Answer me this simple question - which is the higher priority:

a) making yourself a good person who cares for others and attempts to improve the world.

b) becoming a christian.

I realise you can do both. I realise you believe both are important. I realise that you believe it's important to become one with christ or whatever the terminology is. I've heard all these various justifications before, but instead of contortionist responses or lines of scripture, I'd like a simple a) or b) from the question above.

Because I am, and will always be, of the opinion that comparing the goodness and works of mankind is far, far more important than seeking some ephemeral belief set. In fact, I think to do otherwise is shirking our responsibility to our fellow man, and yes, I believe that responsibility is far greater than to any god, and if there is a god out there, I can't believe it would think any differently.

Boazy wonders why Christianity is depicted negatively in some contemporary media. Then he and his even more deranged Christian cohort, runner, go on to try and impugn the character of one of the world's most universally respected figures of the last century, presumably because Gandhi wasn't a Christian.

True to his usual form, Boazy engages in innuendo about old men and "little girls". Is there anybody of whom Boazy disapproves who doesn't get tarred with his 'paedophile' brush?

The answer is quite simple, really. A major reason that Christianity is portrayed as the wellspring of deranged psychopathology in films etc is that there are more than a few Christians of a similar mould to the Boazys and runners of the world.

Complete and utter frootloops with nasty obsessions about sex. An awful look for a religion, but grist for the mill in popular culture.

Keep up the good work, Boazy and runner :)

CJ's last post perfectly illustrates the very point I've been making.

Notice how he uses this terminology to describe myself and runner...

DERANGED. fortunately I guess, I am the lesser deranged of the two :)
Thanx for that heads up CJ. I suppose 'less deranged' is better than fully deranged. hmmmmmm

So.. such terminology adds to the total impact of image.

TRTL here is something of Ghandi and his ways. (not 'my' words)

http://www.sikhspectrum.com/082003/king_and_gandhi.htm

>>Gandhi was a very cunning man. He was not satisfied with the title of "apostle of peace", he also wanted to project himself as a holy man, which for a Hindu required the practice of celibacy. He was a married man and proclaimed to be celibate at a relatively young age under forty. However, he used to test his celibacy by asking young girls to lie over him to find out whether he was in full control of his sexual feelings. I leave up to psychologists and psychiatrists to analyze what was in Gandhi’s mind and what happened to the emotions of those poor girls! He was always surrounded by women.<<

Questionable source ? or... just the voice of one who experienced the rougher end of the Ghandi stick and sees things rather differently.
He actually used the word 'depraved' about Ghandi.

But that aside, the condition of humanity does not depend on how accurately people portray one individual like Ghandi.

BIBLICAL POSITION. Humanity is alienated from God, estranged, cut-off. (apart from those who have repented, and placed their faith in Christ)
So... I cannot really enter into a discussion of the merits of 'human goodness' outside that framework.

C.G. you need a poke :) for being a bit mocking there. *poke*.
I urge you (and Robert) to spend some time contemplating Christs death for us, and his resurrection, and then... maybe seek to understand the other hard issues in terms of those events.
Remember, Jesus was not forced to the cross, he went willingly.

Fraid it's not a reliable source there boaz. Give me something with a little more substance, before you go impugning Gandhi, of all people.

You said:

"BIBLICAL POSITION. Humanity is alienated from God, estranged, cut-off. (apart from those who have repented, and placed their faith in Christ)
So... I cannot really enter into a discussion of the merits of 'human goodness' outside that framework."

And this is precisely the problem. This is what's known as a 'copout'.

A so much needed Christian forgiveness.

An interview with Hans Bigge on Sky News brought up the period over four years ago when as chief of the UN Hans fought to prevent the attack on Iraq which now rather than capturing Islamic hearts and minds in the name of democracy, has turned out a historical laughing stock with America openly but obviously tactfully turning to Saddam’s Baath Party Sunnis for help.

Apart from the way he was treated by people like Bush, Blair and Howard, Bligge was still surprisingly tender about it, saying that since WW2, we must look at nations such as Germany and Japan, when compared to before WW2, they have completely lost the thirst for conflict.

It was surprising that Hans should think that such a change in only two important nations should be a reason for a change for the better?

Right now, unfortunately, the conflicts are far different from those which were simply angers percolating from a previous war as Maynard Keynes stressed so much about with the rise of Nazi Germany, and with Japan backing Germany in the hope that a Nazi victory would also allow her as a self-expressed elitist nation to take over nations not so clever.

To be sure after the defeat of Germany and Japan in WW2, it was the message from a dying Maynard Keynes during the Bretton Woods Agreement that brought on the wonderful Marshall Plan, its message of forgiveness for former enemies which is so much needed in the Middle East right now.

Possibly the only example that has come in existence since has been Nelson Mandela’s forgiveness to the South African white supremos - though some say Pope John helped spread the message - and in many ways, the earlier victory for peace of Mahatma Gandhi over British India, and what is now Pakistan