Hmmm, the multicultural nature of Australian society means that there is no single national identity but a gathering of many cultures, and this is one of the most unique and rewarding aspects of living in Australia. The nature of being Australian is to be part of this diversity. The wide and varied gathering of 'idendities' is in keeping with the sense of potential and openess so many people enjoyed on coming here. My grandparents and parents felt privileged not only to have been able to make a home here but also to have found their own sense of belonging.

As for religion - well, I am reminded of a good Catholic - the friend of a friend - whose chosen epitaph was 'I leave the world as I entered it: bewildered.' I am a hopeful Christian but also an inadequate one, with doubts. I respect other religions because I think they are reaching for the same truth, though from a different angle. But as the Protestant theologian Paul Tillich wrote, "Doubt is not the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith." I like the sound of that.

Foxy

Beautifully put. You are the very reason that, in my original post, I wrote "godbotherers" rather than Christians. Your humble, generous, hopeful version of faith is what I understand as the best of Christianity, because it aspires to be ever better, ever more generous, ever more forgiving, ever less judgmental, ever more humble. It's the "what would Jesus do" version.

So thanks. I'm reminded that not all Christians clearly suspect that other people's world view is less profound than their own.

Wow....:) botheration and foxy... quite a lot to work with there.

FOXY....

>>Hmmm, the multicultural nature of Australian society means that there is no single national identity but a gathering of many cultures,<<

Really ? I'm not sure what you base this on mate..truly. The sense of identity has been evolving.. yes, but there is still a very real sense of being 'Australian' and if you ask many migrants who have been back to the 'old country' that they had idealized ....unTIL they went back to the reality, you would see it.

Approx 70% of Aussies are of the same background (Anglo/Scott/Irish='British') and the rest are a patchwork of small minorities. You don't see any 'single' national identity there?
So, ur statement might apply to the 30% but not the 70%.

After a few generations.. do you really expect people to call themselves Irish or Scottish, or Chinese or Greek ...?... No mate.... they have the same aussie accent as me and possibly you. The only thing indicating their ethnic background might be their surname.
I don't celebrate diversity..I tolerate it. I've lived 'diversity' and it sucks...specially during 'shortages of stapels'. Ever had your water cut off just because you were 'not' of the same ethnicity or religion as the village 200 meters away and thus were 'expendable'?

Ever looked for a job at Siemens and missed because the ethnically controlled Union wanted that job for 'one of them' ?

BOTHERATION. I find it intriquing how people 'project' onto Jesus a personality and behavior that they have decided suits 'them' more than it suited Jesus himself. YES...he was 'gentle and lowly'.. true..but he was ALSO 'passionate' and 'judgmental'... see what he said about the legal fraternity and the religious leaders ?

"you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness" (Mat 23:28).

Sounds pretty 'judgmental' to me.... and very rightly so.

BOAZ: "Ever had your water cut off just because you were 'not' of the same ethnicity or religion as the village 200 meters away and thus were 'expendable'? Ever looked for a job at Siemens and missed because the ethnically controlled Union wanted that job for 'one of them' ?"

These situations are in fact more likely to happen to minorities than majorities in any culture. Wasn't it the fact that the "ethnics" had the power at the union that meant they could overlook you? Surely if you have been treated badly by others because of your ethnicity you would learn to empathise with the lot of people who seek to honour their motherland while embracing their adopted home? And if you think believe they should not honour their motherland, but abandon it, are you so sure that if I dropped you in Laos tomorrow you would immediately stop speaking English, abandon all your customs, and intergrate. And if so, why?

About Jesus, you misunderstand me - I don't project a personality onto him. I project it onto the different herds of Christians, whose belief systems are a chimera with no personality but what they bring to it.

Your Jesus, I gather, isn't much fussed by ethnics or refugees (how conincidental that the great man shares your own prejudices!); a white male who feels a bit hard done by, quite frankly. You can keep him. I will still admire Christians like Foxy, but I believe the reality is that Foxy is just a good egg.

I know I'm being rude, and I'm sorry. I know you really believe it's all true, and that your Jesus is flawed because you, like all of us, are flawed. I find my original question has been answered in a profoundly depressing way. Perhaps I should just leave it here.

It seems to me that defining yourself as "informed" and God-botherers as ignorant is, in itself, misinformed.

The degree of God-botheration displayed by a person is only one aspect of their entirety. Some brilliant minds, including Nobel Prize winners, display varying degrees of God-bothering.

Hence, it would depend upon the specific thread that was at issue whether a God-botherer would even want to sidetrack it. On some threads God-botherers and "the rest of us" would concur.

It is our philosophy and thoughts that motivate us to act. Aren't Muslims God-botherers too?

Well said botheration and I tend to agree, though when every fundamentalist has different ideas of the faith, but they all honestly believe they know jesus intimately, how can you disagree?