FASCINATING......

I read all the posts from my last to this one. I have to underline the thrill of (as one said) a robust discussion. Pity some (un-named) tend to make 'snide and abusive' comments about others rather than address actual issues though 0_-

Botheration. Glad u started the thread.

FRANK.... the crazy thing is.. we actually AGREE on the issue of a more blended Australia.. I express it in rather confrontational terms against the 'MC'ers, because I see 'the emphasizing of difference' as a source of human conflict, and the drawing together of various groups through intermarriage as a good thing...reducing those differences. You said as much in your observation about 3rd gen spouses. All monarchs have married into other royal families to strengthen ties. It's a self evidenct fact of life. I'm thinking you just cannot see past my faith, and then.. in your own mind, connect or associate 'my faith' with a whole stack of negative media generated images. The result being you 'think' you disagree when in reality you don't :)

BRONWYN.. passion...does not equate with 'hate'. Passionate disagreement on issues.. doctrine.. faith.. are part of life. My incontrovertable evidence for LACK of 'hate' toward those I disagree with is found in the thread 'BD and FH meet at maccas' perhaps you didn't see that ? Now.. I offer this as actual evidence...because it was a physical event in the real world. You can stonewall any debate about that as a waste of time, but I strongggggly suggest you are living in a cocoon in doing so :)

WHY DO WE MENTION GOD ?

In terms of solutions to human problems, it is the contention of Christians, (and Muslims by the way) that the source of such problems are found in our alienation from God.

You may confidently interpret ALL we say on the basis of that ONE premise.

OTHER SOLUTIONS. Given the 'glowing' record of human history, and the clear abundance of evidence that most of what happens is of a 'machiavellian' nature, grasping for power etc... it should come as no surprise that we 'G/B's have little confidence in the solutions offered by the natural man.

BUT THEN..... when we mention God...the Almighty, Jesus the Messiah, we do not do so simply as a 'solution to human problems'.
We do it to proclaim the redemption in Christ through repentance and forgiveness that God has offered mankind. "Reconciliation".

IRRATIONAL ?
Contrary to the bigotry of those who claim our faith is irrational, the opposite is the case. If one can find 'irrational' in Pauls 1st letter to the Corinthians chapter 15, please let me know, because it is one of the best argued cases for 'rational' faith I know of.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=15&version=31

PAUL.. went about after his dramatic conversion, "Proving/Proclaiming that Jesus was the Son of God".... in so doing, he met up with the Pericles's and CJ Morgans of his day....There were even the FrankGols :) but Frank is closer to the kingdom than many, because in spite of his determination to disagree...he speaks from a sincere heart from what I can observe.

I hope no-one suggests this thread is being 'hijacked' :)

David

One major difference between us is that I don't think reducing the differences needs to be mandated as public policy. Just let people get on with their lives and they will make contact and negotiate mutually satisfying relationships. The policy of multiculturalism encourages people to explore points in common. That's why I can't understand the virulent opposition to it. The idea that multiculturalism emphasises points of difference is a distortion.

As for me associating your faith with 'a whole stack of negative media generated images', you are now making false assumptions about how I have developed my understanding of 'Christianity' as it is practised. Don't discount my personal experiences and those of the people I associate with, many of whom were violated by priests, clergy and (in one case) nuns.

BOAZ_David

When I referred to hatred in your posts I didn't mean hatred toward other posters, as you know full well, I meant hatred toward specific groups of people. Muslims and refugees come to mind and I'm sure there would be many other examples if I was prepared to trawl through your posts which I most certainly am not.

I was not stonewalling debate in general as this post clearly demonstrates. I was only stating that I wasn't going to enter a debate with you or any other religious fanatic about the veracity or otherwise of any religious claims. You always defend your narrow position from a fundamentalist faith-based perspective that defies all rational argument and I just won't get involved in it.

I will always attack religious zealotry and the misery it causes though at every opportunity. I certainly am not living in a cocoon. That description is far more suited to someone who shields himself in every debate by trotting out extraneous quotes from an irrelevant and antiquated tome. That's stonewalling and cocooning if ever I saw it.

DB, given the "glowing" record of ecclesiastical history, and the clear abundance of evidence that most of what happens is of a 'machiavellian' nature, grasping for power etc... it should come as no surprise that we atheists have little confidence in the solutions offered by religious people.

Nevertheless, us atheists do not attempt to link every topic to the absense of god, or even to the great humanist values of altruism and virtue. I'm sure you find your own religious rhetoric fascinating, but its irrelevance and the way it is occassionally used in the service of mean-spiritedness (see: <http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1174&page=0#20823>) is driving at least one poster away. Now, I know my absense isn't going to cause general dismay, and driving posters away may in fact be your intention, in which case well done you. (Clearly you're not trying to convert anyone.) But, personally, I think the constant religious intrusions detract from the intellectual integrity of and the search for truth on this board.

I would always, of course, fight for your right to intrude at your will.

God and religion are purely a human invention.............Unless I suppose, you are under the illusion your god talks & listens to you.