I was watching on old ABC film clip the other day about Pro Hart the artist and Pro was saying that though the Berlin Wall had fallen Communism hadnt gone away.
Has Communism gone away? Or is it still alive in dim back rooms where some still worship the old Red flame?
I wonder?
After over 70 years it must be hard to repent of an ethic as strong as Communism has been to some.
Is there any threat from what has been Communism still afloat in Australian politics? I have no knowledge on the subject.

It surely was a couple of years back.

I am thinking of the Commutant Ninja Turtles.

Everybody thinks it was the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 that signalled the end of Communism in Europe. Actually, it was the death of their spiritual leader, Jimi Henson in 1990 - by the hand of God, no less! - that really finished them off.

Oops - the 'Jimi' was a typo... a Freudian slip, perhaps - or THE INFLUENCE OF SATAN?

Jim Henson, Jimi Hendrix - the Devil's little helpers, and commos to boot! Not to mention Kermit, Miss Piggy, Bert, Ernie, Oscar, Big Bird and the rest of the Red Army...

Yeah, well I guess a quick look at a map and seeing that China, North Korea, Vietnam and Cuba are still on there, I guess Pro Hart was right!

He wasn't right about much, but he was right about that.

I will try to give the subject a little balance, it is dead but a very few refuse to except that.
That very few strangely are often youths not yet out of their teens and the very old.
In the birth of communism, a far different time than now, it was seen by people as the answer to a world that cared far less for some than it does now.
I have no trouble understanding the part it played in working class party's and workers movements.
And even less trouble saying it was a fraud, it made slaves of workers.
It was however no less honest than most political movements can be left or right.
Communism is dead in its rightful place.
By the way I left one forum because of clashes with 3 communists, one just in his teen years but unable to understand todays workers will never take to self enforced slavery.

That was good Belly.
It was some of what I wanted to know.
I searched the net but I couldnt get a fix on anything easy to understand about where Communism in Australia was in 2007 (much was too highbrow, which seems to be a problem with the internet...everyone wants to complexify simple subjects with lots of talk).
The concern for many committed christians is that Communism isnt truly dead, but gone underground to resurface at a later date possibly as antichrist (see "Mr.666", the coming world dictator, the Beast spoken about in Revelation 13:16-18/14:9-11). The same demon powers that started this alternative system off, still exist and I believe would love to bring it back.
Whenever I look at the angry faces of Whitlam, Hawke and Keating I get the feeling that a Red flame flickers somewhere in a quiet corner with these men. I look at Mr. Rudd and see a liar, him having tried to get the committed christian vote by strongly suggesting any Labor polictician is a committed Bible reading christian.
I often thought if Red Chinas' Peoples Liberation Army actually got here one day (quite possible in the Bibles endtimes)...there would be a few old faces on the Labor side of Australian politics standing at the the airport barrier with open arms to greet them.

"everyone wants to complexify simple subjects with lots of talk"

or it could be that some think that you can simplify complex subjects into a black and white frameworks. That one sided and simplistic looks at a topic can give a workable understanding of those subjects.

There is nothing simple about the choices we all make in our political orientation, most of us don't fully understand all the factors that make us support one party over another or prefer one approach to another (especially when there is little to really differentiate them).

R0bert

Gibo, dont be scared of communism, instead be worried about communist regimes. What's the difference? Communism as an ideaology is about equality of all and sharing everything we have with the less fortunate. The "system" works reasonably well in places like Cuba because they have stuck reasonably closely to the ideal model, and despite the fact that they have a dictator, he hasnt regressed down the path of the Soviets or North Korea. Christ was actually the ultimate communist, and Christians should also support Communism on that basis. Christ urged people to give away all of their worldly possessions, and to not rank themselves as more important than anyone else. That's communism.

The problem with communist regimes is that human greed gets in the way, and without privately owned powers being around to have enough force to influence politicians, its a lot easier for someone to seize power and rule with an iron fist. Communism is supposed to be democratic (everyone being equal and all), but rarely works that way in practice. As much as anything, a system that is so relatively rigid requires long-term governance, so democracy probably wouldnt work in practice anyway.

So pure communist theory doesnt work, but pure market theory doesnt achieve what we really want anyway. What we have particularly in Australia is a mix of the two - socialism. We provide a welfare net and support for those that are not well-off, and we also have a reasonable degree of government regulation in the operation of markets. I happen to think that the way we do things here is a pretty reasonable balance, given that no-one can expect to be perfect.

the idea of communism keeps popping up, and won't go away completely. the early christians were communists, until priests discovered their life style improved immensely when they let the rich into the community as associate members, going to heaven but keeping their cash separate here.

many early farming societies were communitarian, the pueblo indians in sw usa for example. and there were some 'interesting' religious communities there as well: the 'shakers' practiced communism as the early christians did, for the same reason: they believed in their religion.

unfortunately, primitive communism fell prey to state communism, in much the same way as primitive christianity was transformed into catholicism. nowadays, the state takes taxes and doles out pensions (state communism) while the rich get richer(plain old capitalism). it's communism and capitalism sided by side, striding into the future. since both only function by looting fossil wealth, that future is looking a bit chancy for most.

Gibo:

Jesus was a pinko socialist. Maybe even a commie sympathiser.

He even hung out with morally bankrupt folk like prostitutes. You oughta be careful about where you take your inspiration.

If you're not careful, you may fall under the dark spell of Oscar the Grouch.

It's ok Gibo, you can crawl out from under the bed.

To say that Jesus was the original communist is incorrect and touches His Deity and is blasphemous to committed christians.
It puts communism as being the original faith, not Christianity.
We need... people please pay attention...to get things on the right timeline.
First...is God and Adam and Eve in the garden at Eden...then comes the satan as the serpent with his temptations, then the fall happens...a Redeemer is promised as long as Adam and Eve look towards His Coming. Bible history and all of earths history has begun (no evolution is this genuine truth). The Flood, then the tower of Babel, then Abraham, then the Tribes in the desert, then the Law (all of todays law begins here at Mount Sinai) then the Redeemer out of the Abrahamic line...now we see Christ Crucified and Resurrected...now people who put their faith in Jesus (invite Him in) begin to get born again...then everything else in the whole world, after all of this. Christ was first...rotten communism 1900 or so years later second. Jesus first! then fallen man concepts and beliefs (fired up by satan and his lies) second. Those civilisations that had worship before Christ, have gone. Those civilisations that came after Jesus were counterfeits. Thats the timeline. Communism is one of satans counterfeits of the original "God Plan" for mankind, Who is Jesus. You will grab all of this soon as you see the endtimes click into place with the antichrist stepping out onto the world stage (Revelation 13:16-18/14:9-11)

Dear Gibo,

Does Communism still exist today? I suppose it depends what you mean by 'Communism' because - it varies from country to country. In Eastern Europe - it officially collapsed in the 1990s. Unofficially,
'Same bloke, different hat.'

In Australia, the party was banned years ago ... but private beliefs,
well - everyone is entitled to those. I believe that our political ideologies should not allow us to penalize, coerce, or abuse those who believe differently. I don't argue that those sharing my particular understanding of the universe are more worthy than others.
If we acknowledge our common humanity, it becomes more difficult for us to demonize and destroy each other. It's far easier to find principled compromise with one of 'us' than one of 'them.'

Gibo, instead of getting your nose all out of joint, go back and read what I wrote about the difference between the communist ideaology and the communist political regimes. In particular read the bit about why Jesus showed communist ideals. And TRY to pay a little attention to the world around you.

With regards to the Bible being God's Word, you need to recognise that even IF the scripture itself was written by those possessed with the Holy Spirit, it has been heavily edited since. Mostly by that rather corrupted institution, the Catholic Church. Most of it too is historical description, rather than divine guidance, hence it was written by men and described things as they were best able to understand it at the time.

Gibo, I am now thinking you stay under the bed.

You are afraid of communism as others are afraid of neo-conservatism (there are fundamentalist extremists on both the left and the right). It makes sense that somewhere in between there is a balance. I would posit that this is where Rudd (as a Christian) is coming from - to capture the rational thinkers of the community, notwithstanding they may not realise it.

Gibo, some politicians sour the genuine precepts of political ideology, as do some church leaders sour religious philosophy. Each exacerbates the problems we have in the world today through fear, power and control.

The world's problems can only be solved through respect for each other. Why? Because unless we are prepared to respect each other, we will always have conflict and wars.

When Foxy wrote 'Same bloke, different hat.' it reminded me of how Vladimir Putin came to power. He was ex KGB and used the two Chechen wars (started because of bombings across Russia by the secutiry forces and blamed on the Chechens) to propel himself into the Kremlin.

The one chance Russia had for democracy was with Boris Yeltsin. The security forces discredited him and made him look a fool. The West failed to support him as a worthy ally.

So now Russia has a new form of Communism through the back door.

What I really wanted to know CountryGal was "is communism still there in Australian politics quietly working away at some goal or other", maybe in hand with China (theyve got enough spies out here to fill the banqueting hall at federal parliament house several times over. God bless you and Protect you Chen Yonglin for being such a brave man!).
I didnt have a clear picture.
I wasnt sure it was as dead as we believe. In pastor Jack Burrells book WHAT WILL BECOME OF AUSTRALIA 1975 we see Jack getting a vision, from The Lord, of an invader in the land and when its all over and done we see the invader in the top half of the country and a communist-style government in the south. I believe in Jacks vision (I cant get away from it because I really believe that Jack got it from The Holy Spirit as do many other christians)..thus my concern re: communism still not being dead. I really think its alive behind closed doors doing its sinister little thing like the Masons and their demon worship. I wont rest peacefully Q&A until I know.

I can rest easy now, knowing that Gibo's on the case. Go get 'em Gibo!

Sigh. Time to make a few things clear for the 'communism is evil' simpletons.

(Oh, and gibo, who cares what came first? if you're in favour of wealth redistribution via means other than the market, you're a socialist. I don't give a damn about chicken or egg arguments - if it's round and hard it's an egg, if it clucks, it's a chicken damnit).

Any economic (or religious for that matter) system in a pure form, will ultimately result in catastrophe.

Communism was essentially an attempt by the government to control the market. We know that the minutae of supply and demand are far too complex for any government to handle.
There's also the fact that whilst the majority of communism proponents were idealists who believed it would be for the good of the workers, ultimately, it was a system that was easily hijacked.

Communism itself wasn't evil - just easily abused and ultimately a naive attempt at sharing resources equitably among the people.

That being said - when Karl Marx diagnosed capitalism as having some glaring flaws, he was, for the most part, spot on. His solution however, was wrong, as were some of his theories, but I'll get to that.

Marx's central conundrum was that wealth would flow to fewer and fewer hands. There was also the issue that in the interests of competition, the wage of the working man would be continually eroded.

Neo conservatives dismiss the wealth accumulation argument via the trickle down effect, pointing to the success of capitalist economies and the standard of living enjoyed even by their lower classes.

What they ignore is the continual reliance upon growth, and the fact that capitalism still requires government intervention in numerous instances, duopolies such as the recent Amcor case providing a shining example - any government interference in the economy is ultimately a form of socialism to an extent.

I'd continue... but I fear that for fundamentalists such as Gibo, everything has to be black and white, good or evil, for god or against... so I suspect I'd be wasting my time...

TRTL, Yep! But hey, give credit where credit is due … Gibo started this post with a seemingly superficial straight forward question, fishing no doubt.

However, it transmuted to religious doctrinaire along the way. If it wasn’t for the biblionics, I would engage because Gibo certainly needs help and compassion for the state of mind he is in.

TRTL, good advice. I think we are knocking our heads against a brick wall, but sometimes I just cant help myself.

Gibo, no doubt there are some people in politics that hold semi-communistic beliefs. These people also exist outside politics. Try googling the communist party of australia - they have a website. Whether they are trying to take over Australian politics is another question altogether. Our democracy will help weed that out though, as I think most of our society ultimately sways more towards capitalism.

If the CPA are colluding with China though to set up a communist regime in Oz, the "invaders" must be Indonesia (otherwise if it were China, then by your logic they would control the whole of Australia rather than just the north). You're getting lots of answers to your questions today!

BTW, much as I dislike secretive groups, the Masons arent demon worshipers. They simply refer to the Divine Spirit, or such name, so as to not require non-Christian members to refer specifically to God. The group formally recognise a divine universal power, and base much of their stories and history on the bible. Grab a book about them and have a read. Its quite interesting.

Dear Gibo,

Mankind has always been in the middle of a struggle. All we can hope,
however, if for leadership at home and abroad that will inspire us to look for the best in ourselves and in others. summoning our capacity to care for one another in ways that cannot fully be explained by self-interest, logic, or science.

Every individual counts. If we truly accept and act on it, we will have the basis for unity across every border. We will take and hold the high ground against terrorists, dictators, tyrants, and bigots.
We will gain from the contributions of all people; and we will defend and enrich liberty rather than merely consume it.

In so doing, we may hope to inch our way over time not toward a glistening and exclusive church/temple on a hill, but toward a globe on which might and right are close companions and where dignity and freedom are shared by all.

I like being a fundamentalist TRTL. Its secure. I have Gods Word so I dont need to ponder. Thanks for your contributions though.
I missed the Berlin Wall going down Q&A and I wasnt able to keep up with the fall of communism here in Australia.
As with most christians sooner or later we get around to the Man Who Was On The Cross for each one of us...its The Holy Spirits Prescence. We cant help it.
Thanks too Country Gal. I do know about the Masons. Jack the Ripper: the Final Solution by Stephen Knight is an interesting book. At the upper levels of the Masons they worship a creature called Ya bul on and from then on its pure satanism. This Ive been taught with plenty of eye witness testimonies so I know its true. For years Ive been into anti-witchcraft and anti-occult writings. I know whats going on with "the dark ones".
My understanding of the invader is that it will be China, but God stops them at a certain point (His Great Compassion dear friends) and they do not take all of Australia.
That sounds good too Foxy. I think the future is set though. We can read about it in John's Revelation. Its a bit heavy so you might read Luke chapter 21 first as a gentler lead-in to the final book of the Holy Bible. 2 timothy 3 is also interesting.
I guess, Jack the Lad, if theres a new communism in Russia coming through the back door it will be here too before the sun sets on the damn thing as Jesus Enters through the front door at His Second Coming.

I have come to the conclusion that Gibo is in fact a pseudonym of the Chaser boys, and is having a lend of us all.

They're all there in the green room, chuckling their socks off at anyone who takes their creation even remotely seriously. We'll find ourselves featured on their programme, just wait and see.

Check it out. Not one of his posts makes the slightest sense.

And to cap it all, Gibo never posts while the Chaser show is on. What more proof do you need?

Gibo: "...if theres a new communism in Russia coming through the back door it will be here too before the sun sets on the damn thing as Jesus Enters through the front door at His Second Coming."

Yes, I think you may be correct again Pericles. Demons, UFOs, commos - somebody's having a lend of us.

Some of it's quite hilarious though :)

A few thoughts, foxy on what day by what means did communism get banned in Australia?
It never did.
Gibo once reds under the bed drew screams of fear in the Parliament , now are they under the church?
Bob Hawk? gee mate that is funny, me too see I come from his side in the ALP.
And despise the very left.
I however have good news for you, like sharmen of old I have found a way to have visions.
Half a bottle of that rum, one bottle of that cola, increasingly not needed as you progress.
My vision is blurred , no idea why, but it seems those hoards marching on us may not be the 300 world communism could muster.

No Pericles Gibo is for real. I've even tracked down his churches website (although Gibo is a little more out there than his church appears to be).

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

R0bert

"We have a permanent injunction against all unsaved persons. If you are unsaved, you are not allowed within a 10-mile radius of our church, nor are you allowed on this website. Kindly leave, and be about the Devil's business, for you are not welcome here. Glory!"

"WARNING! WE ARE CONSERVATIVE, GODLY, REPUBLICAN AND UNSTOPPABLE"

Oh man. That's some scary business.

And Gibo: "I like being a fundamentalist TRTL. Its secure. I have Gods Word so I dont need to ponder"

That's the biggest copout I've ever heard, and quite frankly, it disgusts me. We have a responsibility to think for ourselves.

Morality is not imbued by god. It is robbed from people blindly obey others. Look back through history and all of the worst possible acts of carnage have been committeed by people at the behest of others. People who "don't need to ponder."

If you can't ponder things then why are you even here? You've basically just admitted your opinion isn't thought out and is basically worthless.

Gibo: "I like being a fundamentalist TRTL. Its secure. I have Gods Word so I dont need to ponder"

Gibo, you have so much in common with Al qaeda - maybe you should all get together for a l'il fundy shindig. What a knees-up that would be...

I am quite certain that the final thoughts of the suicide pilots on 9/11 were: "I have god's word, I don't need to ponder".

Scary stuff.

So scary even Boazy has steered clear of this thread.

That's it Gibo, I'm outa here. No wonder we have so many problems on this planet ... extremists from all sides and never the twain shall meet.

Ponder this ... How would Jesus (God or the Holy Spirit) deal with your concerns?

It's sad really, people like Gibo turn people away from what is basically a good philosophy.

Give Gibo and his ilk a planet with Bin Laden's mob and they can destroy it together ... just don't do it here.

TurnRightThenLeft, just in case you missed it the site is a satirical spoof of some sections of the church, not an actual church site. It's just when you get used to views like Gibo's it looks to be too mild to be satire.

A clever spoof which might have helped those in the habit of pondering and reflecting think about where some of their fundamentalism leads but a message that seems to mostly fall on deaf ears.

The Wikipedia entry is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Baptist_Church

Some of the opposition sites seem a bit like spoof's as well but I suspect that they are real.

One of the most obvious anti Landover sites
http://objectiveministries.org/shutdown/

and for the possibility that the shutdown site is not real http://www.positiveatheism.org/mail/eml9124.htm

R0bert

Ah yes, I probably should have given the site more than a cursory glance... though the line between satirical fundamentalism and plain old fundamentalist fundamentalism is getting rather thin these days.

I must say, their apocalyptic rantings have succeeded in persuading me of one thing - I used to be tolerant of everyone's beliefs.
Now, there's a certain level of fundamentalist nutbaggery where I simply have to draw the line.

I know you guys think Im strange. But not so.
The world Im from is a solid christian world.
We read or listen to Gods Word mostly each day. We pray for just about everyone we can think of. We fellowship each week maybe two, three times. We witness about what Jesus did on the Cross and about his Resurrection. Visions are common. Dreams are common. All about the future; and different aspects of peoples lives. Prophecy is common in christian churhes. We all know about demon powers. Many of us have seen them and done warfare against them. Its an ordinary committed christians life. Nothing special once you make that committment to Jesus as Lord and Saviour. The Holy Spirit is our Guide. We do what He wants where we can. My knowledge of UFO's and their possible manufacture by men on earth comes only from Stan Deyos The Cosmic Conspiracy. Didnt we drift from the original subject? PS: Christianity is not a philosophy? Its living in the Presence of a real Spirit Lord, Jesus. Can you dig it? A real Lord Who has His Spirit in us.
For an asian communist army to try and take us, which they will try one day (the Bible is clear about a massive asian army in asia at least...Revelation 9:16 and 16:12) they must have agents here...and that points to communism still quietly alive in places of power and authority in Australian politics. Little red helpers. One might suggest. See also General Discussion: Chen Younglin: man for any year.

Okay Gibo, enough already... you're really Chas Licciardello... aren't you?

Rationing of water, telling people how much they can use, when they can use it and how they can use it, is a communist principle.

Gibo, would you mind, if you must quote Bible scripture, quoting from any other chapter than Revelations? I get very tired of JW's always quoting one chapter of the Bible as if it is the entire book.

As an aside, I often ponder on who wrote Genesis. There doesn't appear to be any solid evidence for the author. This makes it hard for me to believe it (its a good story though).

I also can't quite fathom the connection between Christianity and Communism. I don't think anyone should be worried that Communism will dispel Christianity. This is about as unlikely as us growing wings and flying. Human history has shown that all political ideologies have their heyday and their downfall, and the same can be said for religions.

Religion is a man made institution. Faith is not.