The Forum > General Discussion > Is honesty a Christian Value?
Is honesty a Christian Value?
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Posted by Webby, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 10:49:35 PM
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and lucky last:
Matt. 10:3 - James is also called the son of "Alpheus." This does not disprove that James is the son of Clopas. The name Alpheus may be Aramaic for Clopas, or James took a Greek name like Saul (Paul), or Mary remarried a man named Alpheus. Posted by Webby, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 10:49:59 PM
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David B wrote
scripture shows James the brother of our Lord..and His mother and brothers were calling for him So...they ( the Catholic Church)simply re-interpret passages to make them harmonious with their doctrine.. you simply need a basic knowledge of Church history and New Testament background to see the truth here. Do you have those basics David? Jesus' Brothers (adelphoi)) = Cousins or Kinsmen Luke 1:36 Elizabeth is Mary's kinswoman. Some translate kinswoman "cousin," but this is an improper translation because in Hebrew and Aramaic, there's no word for cousin. Luke 22:32 Jesus tells Peter to strengthen his brethren. We clearly see Jesus using "brethren" to refer to the other apostles, not his biological brothers. Acts 1:12-15 the gathering of Jesus' (brothers) amounts to about 120. That's a lot of (brothers). Brother means kinsmen in Hebrew. Acts 7:26; 11:1; 13:15,38; 15:3,23,32; 28:17,21 some of many other examples where (brethren) doesn't mean blood relations. Rom. 9:3 Paul uses (brethren) and kinsmen interchangeably. (Brothers) of Jesus doesn't prove Mary had other children. Gen. 11:26-28 Lot is Abraham's nephew (anepsios) / Gen. 13:8; 14:14,16 Lot is still called Abraham's brother (adelphos) . This proves that, although a Greek word for cousin is anepsios, Scripture also uses adelphos to describe a cousin. Gen. 29:15 Laban calls Jacob is brother even though Jacob is his nephew. This proves that brother means kinsmen or cousin. Deut. 23:7; 1 Chron. 15:5-18; Jer. 34:9; Neh. 5:7 brethren' means kinsmen. Hebrew and Aramaic have no word for cousin. 2 Sam. 1:26; 1 Kings 9:13, 20:32 here we see that brethren can even be one who is unrelated (no bloodline), such as a friend. 2 Kings 10:13-14 King Ahaziah's 42 'brethren' were really his kinsmen. 1 Chron. 23:21-22 Eleazar's daughters married their brethren who were really their cousins. Neh. 4:14; 5:1,5,8,10,14 more examples of brothers meaning cousins' or kinsmen. Tobit 5:11 Tobit asks Azarias to identify himself still calls him brother. Amos 1: 9 brotherhood can also mean an ally (where there's no bloodline Posted by Webby, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:06:34 PM
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The meek shall inherit (alas a destroyed one )earth.So we should bow to our masters and do their biding as when it is lost and they face the maker it will all be mine.Oh NO I'm the only one left.
Posted by insignificant, Wednesday, 17 October 2007 11:53:38 PM
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Tony Abbott for PM... Tony Abbott for PM... Give it a break runner ... you have just given Peter (Nobody likes me) Costello a heart attack. Don't worry Pete... it was a joke... Go back to giving tax cuts to the rich... you are good at that.
runner... Many of the rotten people who have hurt children have been priests, ministers, lay ministers and members of churches haven't they? Didn't one ex-Arch Bishop/Governer General have to resign because he forgot his duty under the law to report to the police a priest under him who was accused of these horrid crimes? Why don't churches report offenders in their organisations to the Police? Do you have proof that these companies in Canberra are financing any politicians and if so who? If you can't prove it you have just broken one of the Ten Commandments - Thou shalt not bear false witness! I think you need the proof to say such a thing. If there is a pollie being so financed tell us please? runner/David - If the Exclusive Brethren are using their tax free status to raise money for political advertising isn't that immoral? I thought Jesus taught that people should give money to the poor! I don't think he said they should be paying for the ads of Politicians did he? Did jesus pay for Pontius Pilate's advertising? Are your views on Christianity and right and wrong a little strange? I think your heart is in the right place... but is your mind? You have a moral dilemna runner... either Churches are businesses and should pay taxes OR they are tax free organisations who use their funds for the betterment of poor, sick and underpriviledged people in society. John Howard knows he is in trouble on this one... and when did political advertising become a Christian value? runner are you a bit lost on this thread?... afterall - all people are liars! You said it yourself! I see now this thread is going to be the catholics Vs Protestants ... great! Posted by Opinionated2, Thursday, 18 October 2007 1:18:56 AM
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Opinionated2,
Well put. For your info, here's an indication of the number of clergy charged with sex crimes as the result of one campaign (and one religion) alone. http://brokenrites.alphalink.com.au/nletter/bccrime.html Considering these figures in proportion the the number of clegy in the general population it seems they have a problem living up to their own rhetoric. Posted by wobbles, Thursday, 18 October 2007 12:07:50 PM
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Mark 6:3 - Jesus was always referred to as "the" son of Mary, not "a" son of Mary. Also "brothers" could have theoretically been Joseph's children from a former marriage that was dissolved by death. However, it is most likely, perhaps most certainly, that Joseph was a virgin, just as were Jesus and Mary. As such, they embodied the true Holy Family, fully consecrated to God.
Luke 1:31,34 - the angel tells Mary that you "will" conceive (using the future tense). Mary responds by saying, "How shall this be?" Mary's response demonstrates that she had taken a vow of lifelong virginity by having no intention to have relations with a man. If Mary did not take such a vow of lifelong virginity, her question would make no sense at all (for we can assume she knew how a child is conceived). She was a consecrated Temple virgin as was an acceptable custom of the times.
Luke 2:41-51 - in searching for Jesus and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings.
John 7:3-4; Mark 3:21 - we see that younger "brothers" were advising Jesus. But this would have been extremely disrespectful for devout Jews if these were Jesus' biological brothers.
John 19:26-27 - it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend if he had brothers.
John 19:25 - the following verses prove that James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins and not his brothers: Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of the Virgin Mary.
Matt. 27:61, 28:1 - Matthew even refers to Mary the wife of Clopas as "the other Mary."
Matt. 27:56; Mark 15:47 - Mary the wife of Clopas is the mother of James and Joseph.
Mark 6:3 - James and Joseph are called the "brothers" of Jesus. So James and Joseph are Jesus' cousins.