When I was at HMAS Leeuwin, Fremantle WA back in the 60's one of the popular Friday night events was for senior recruits to grab junior recruits and put them through "the gauntlet". The seniors would line up down the length of one of their barracks and the junior victim would have to run the length of the barrack getting hit with whatever the seniors had a hand. One night a junior was knocked unconscious with half a house brick wrapped in a pillow case. Another popular event was boot polishing the testicles; out of which one recruit reportedly lost a testicle due to infection (this popular sport carries on even to today in all services). And no one in authority ever stop these events from happening (they are part of lore). Forty years later the bastardisation still powers up the warped humour of Australias military leaders. People are still being victimised and sometimes brutally. Women in particular are unsafe in the services because of the sexual harrassment/rape potential. The federal government likewise turns a blind eye. John Howard uplifts the larrikin in the services: yet larrikin also means hoodlum. Peter Cosgrove, when in power, said he loves the irreverence of the Australian fighting man. So here then is the real problem. Its in attitudes...PM attitides/military leader attitudes/national attitudes. For the services to function properly they need to drastically clean up their acts. Parents need to think twice before allowing their teenagers to enlist. If its not safe for your youngster in our services dont put them through the misery of joining the servcies. Let the PM and the Defence Department change their hearts! How do the girls feel about their safety in Australia armed services? Parents be aware of what is going on!

the chinese have a saying: don't use good iron for nails, or good men for soldiers.

soldiers are people who are willing to go where politicians tell them, and kill the people the politicians say kill. since politicians have the moral sense of mafia dons, their hired gunmen are no different from mafia goons. they show their quality in many ways, bastardization is typical.

pollies and goons will try to tell you they defend the nation. in fact, when the nation needs defending there is mass enlistment, and conscription. the pros are just necessary for government control of the people. they act as strike-breakers and general purpose thugs.

This is a slow moving thread?
Im thinking the reason the army, navy and airforce get so few new recruits is because of the bastardisation.
Can anyone else see this?
The youth, though lacking in wisdom and disrespectful, are by no means without the knowledge of the persecution one can fall into in the services. Shivers...its been on tv for years...one incident after another. Would you go for a career where those you work for can be as dangerous to your health as the enemy?
And all the defence department has to do is end it! Thats all.
I would like to see a public statement from the PM about this problem and a noble end to the troubles recruits and women go through in the military. As a parent I wouldnt let my son join any of Australias military services without a signed agreement by the federal government that he wouldnt be bastardised. At the present time, despite being somewhat equiped and looking like a first world defence force, I think in truth we are little more than a third world defence force. Defence force traditions (bastardisation processes/leanings) are paganism.

Actually...to committed christians worldwide, those who have a well-rounded knowledge of the Holy Bible and exactly how evil presents itself to mankind, bastardisation with all of its practices and rituals and secret ways, is witchcraft. There is lots of witchcraft wherever there is darkness and persecution and injustice and things apart from submission to Jesus Christ. If we dont do it Gods way we, in time, do it satans way. Thus is the root of "traditional bastardisation"...witchcraft.

We had been there a week, we were all around 16... a new intake at RAAF Laverton Apprentice school.. it was great.. new mates.. away from home... money... and good training.

Then...they came.

A Saturday night.. the 2nd years arrived back, drunk... aggressive..violent.. uncaring. I awoke around midnight, to the sound of loud banging.. sticks on empty metal drums.. and many thumping crashing sounds.. along with the unmistakable sound of fist on flesh..then..yelling.. agonized screaming..coming closer... to my room about half way up the barracks.
In they came.. raging wide eyed freaks.. turned my bed 180 with me in it...and ordered me to re-make it 'perfectly'...
Anyone who spoke up was mercilessly thumped into near inconsciousnes, one bloke had a nervous breakdown.. they came back about half an hour later.. and then again.. and again...
Such was our introduction to 'Air Force Life'.
Bashings...Torture.. brutality.. humiliation..sexual abuse (forcing a bloke to masterbate in front of them).. it all happened.

I felt the brutality of one sadistic moron.. being belted so badly that it constitutes 'Assault and aggravated battery'. I've often felt like persuing that bloke through the AFP, and I know where he lives today...another king hit me in front of the drill instructors office, and his assembled intake, and tried to 'educate' me that it only took 1 of 'them' to give 1 of 'us' a royal flush. That was the point where I snapped.. and although I had blood from neck to navel from the king hit to the nose.. he ended up with 2 black eyes and the associated humiliation for a week. That was the day I became a 'man'. I was never touched again.

I remember the nightmare of the Easter weekend of 1966 and a large group of recruits from HMAS Leeuwin, Fremantle WA travelling on the Commodores launch over to Rottnest Island off the coast with only an Able Seaman and a Petty Officer. No sooner were we barracked than the Able Seaman and the Petty Officer disappeared into one room of the barrack to get bombed on beer. Much of the rest of the weekend us recruits wandered without supervision. At night some of the recruits got plastered themselves (some recruits were always jumping the fence at HMAS Leeuwin and going to local bottleshops. There were always drunken brawls in the Officers Mess as well)... and began to take it out on the local Quokka population (a Quokka is a small furry marsupial...lovely little things). With sticks and stones some of the recruits began bashing in the heads of these totally harmless little creatures, some of the mothers had babies. These then were some of my experiences with Australias armed services. In 40 years I see no change. Army morons is KKK outfits, sailors greasing and whipping juniors as they cross the Equator, women being abused by men, men being abused by men, soldiers killing cats... there is todays military. And idiot superiors doing nothing!

Gibo,
Mate 40 years ago was along time ago.
Im recently retired from the ARMY and I can assure you that bastardisation is not tolerated within the Army.

Not to say it doesnt still happen, but it is not tolerated. The beatings of recruits is long gone just does not happen anymore.

The new touchy feely defence force we have today is a long cry from where it was in the 60's and I would say for the worse. When you have to go to a battle field as I have done you need to know that the guy beside you is not going to crap himself and cry like a baby at the first shot going over your head.

There has been a huge shift in defence attitude to behaviour since 2000. There is a 1800 number you can call to blow the whistle, coucillors Padres you name it its there.

There is no more of the living in sardine cans on barracks of years gone by. We now have modern units on base for new guys and DHA and rental assistance as well as an attractive house ownership scheme to the tune of $28000 for members to buy a house with or without families.

Gibo I find your comments startling and to be honest quite offensive.
You have obviously had a bad time in the ADF. I would say that has more to do with you than the ADF. Some people just should never have been allowed into the ADF for starters. They seem to attract bad behaviour.

Valuable training tools have been lost with the advent of a touchy feely ADF. You call us thugs. Shame on you Gibo shame shame shame.

You are not welcome to come to ANZAC day so just stay away.

Well tell it to the ongoing victims Scotty. They still appear in the newspapers and they are not lying especially the women who suffer because of the men. I would want a signed agreement if my boy was going in that he wont get bastardised. Parents should insist. Both the PM and men like Cosgrove are the guilty ones in this. The larrikin/hoodlum behaviour of servicemen has to be elliminated. Sorry son you come across as full of service progaganda.

A countries armed services is a mirror of its society.

In all the examples you gave all I can say is so bloody what.

Young blokes letting off a bit of steam.

Get a life.

It's not often I say it, but I Gotta agree with scotty there gibo. I know a few people in the armed forces, and yeah, there's some of the mischief you describe, but it's nowhere near as bad as what you've outlined, at least, not today.

As far as bastardisation goes, I'm sure there's a prophecy out there somewhere telling you how it'll pan out anyway, right?
Can't you just look into the future and see if your son would be okay?

My biggest concern is that these attitudes and actions we have been recording here.. are symptomatic of a deeper crisis of values in society as a whole.

Going from our 60s experiences to 'touchy feely' is also not a great step.

I saw a doco where the Sth Korean officers and NCO's have to 'persuade' the privates to do things.. Such an army will never win a war.

I don't know what others think of our tryst in Afghanistan, but my guess is that a big part of the Army thinking is to toughen up the blokes for what will come.

If we had an army without combat readiness we'd be in deep poo.

The heads of the armed forces have a duty of care under their office to enforce the rules of the armed forces or I think they can be held personally liable. Under duty of care you can prosecute the organisation, the Government, the Officers and the people for criminal actiivity against individuals or groups of individuals.

Bastardisation is common assault and is therefore illegal under the defense force laws. If it is occurring still - report it to a non-defense force department like the Federal Police, go see a lawyer and get the media involved.

This outrageous activity (whenever it occurs) must be stopped and it seems like in most things it will not be stopped until groups of ex-servicemen and women go to a solicitor like Slater & Gordon and commence a class action against the armed forces for turning a blind eye to common assault.

Scotty - does someone telling their sad story and it offending you mean you probably need re-education regarding bullying, justice and it's enforcement by superiors? What rank are you and have you taken part in this rough-housing of colleagues at any time? Are you blaming the victim?

Mutual respect is what is needed in the Armed Services - your duty is far too important for it to be lowered in the eyes of the community by stupidity and assaulting of fellow soldiers.

If the armed forces are embarrassed by these revelations fix the problem... you owe it to your uniform

Ah come forth the leftist. Opinionated what would you have the government do?

Round me and all the other calious uncaring ninties types up and give us some re-education Pyongyang style.

What sought of bloke do you think it takes to be a front line soldier?

Could you or your latte sipping bleeding hearts brigade handle 150 odd days in the bush every year,
physical training to the level of an athlete,
walking around with near your own body weight on your back,
being injured, getting (dihareoa)sic, sleeping in the dirt, blisters and to top it off the chance of catching a bullet or being killed in training.

Didnt think so.

A soldiers life is rewarding but hard and they deserve the respect of the community and not to be tarred with the same brush of a few dingbats.

Bastardisation is a thing of the past in the ARMY at least, that side of the Army has been cut away by the namby pamby brigade.

I served with a gay soldier who came out at the boozer in front of the battalion. Nothing ever happened to him because he was one of us.
And God help any one else who touched him.

We look after our own

Scotty - Ah just what I expected the hard nut... you're a lefty crap. And the rounding you up "Pyongyang style" was a lovely touch of drama - you should be on the stage!

No I'm for law and order even when you wear the uniform of a soldier.

Plus I expect people who come across hard nuts who bully them to be protected by the very oath you guys swear. Yep obeying one's countries orders means no bullying, bashing or any other type of tough guy dribble!

And gee you guys allowed a gay guy in your unit... Wow how modern thinking. Congratulations!

I have the utmost respect for all people in uniform who serve their country - Yep even you Scotty. Put you back pack and diarrhea down for a tick and learn the language of modern thinking. But firstly thank you and congratulations for serving our country!

The problem you have Scotty is that you say how we should respect soldiers and in the next breath undermine today's soldiers because they aint as tough as you guys thought you were. Afterall you said the bastardisation side wasn't cut away by the big men of the army but the namby pamby side.

I stand for law and order even in the services and expect the heads of the services to strictly observe it - what do you stand for?

HMMM calling me the C word, Graham wont like that too much.

Look Im really sorry about your son however I dont see what he has to do with this thread. Perhaps you could have taught him self defence and not wrapped him in cotton wool.

No Ive never bullied anyone and have never been bullied. Ive copped a few on the chin and learnt from mistakes. What doesnt kill you should make you stronger and all that.

I dont see what putting my name on a public forum would do, are you threatening me with violence? Ive said nothing illegal or defamatory.
Why dont you put your email and name up then we can trade insults like chidren do or maybe I can invite you round to bash me up that will make you feel better wont it

Pull your head in your a silly little man bitter at the world for bullying your boy thats not my fault its your fault for not putting a stop to it. You felt powerless then as now, does he have a drug problem to go with it thats your fault to. Mindless drongo you dont have a bloody clue do you....

That was a good testimony BOAZ_David.
I appreciated it. Strange how it all comes back after so many years. I got a bit wound up.
Scotty began to show his real colours after a good interesting first letter.
"Inherant larrikin service carnality" I suspect. I think its one of the injections some of the more biff ones get with their initial medicals. Pity it wasnt a shot of Jesus in their arms. Christian revival in the military sorely lacks!
Letting off steam for service people can be broad thing. Getting blown by booze, punching people up, touching the girls (and worse...I wonder what the real story is with women being raped in the services? A deeply hidden story I suspect. Parents remember that when your little girl wants to sign on) or killing the kittens (like those at Townsville barracks a while back. Brave boys).
The full story about military thefts never gets out either.
Are the Sandline weapons still intact up at Tindal Air base in the NT or have some drifted away?
The times are darkening ...we need a disciplined military. We need services where the women are safe, not groped at or leared at or made sly sexual comments to.
The PLA will be smiling today at what we have as soldiers in this country. They know in their hearts Australias servicemen are no match for them. The Book of Revelation 9:16 and 16:12 says one day they are coming. Outwards and westwards across asia towards Israel and maybe southwards on to Australia (many revelations from the Lord about this). And thats no drama on my part because The Word is true.

My heart is always for the women in our services and for the young guy starting out who has had a good home life and who has been deceived by the recruiting propaganda and believes he is going to a safe environment and who has never had his testicles bootpolished and has no knowlledge of the paganism at the end of the line (rites of passage arent they marvellous).
I want to see an open inquiry into rape in the army, navy and airforce. I will be happy with that.
PS: dont ever tell me it doesnt happen. That safeguards are in place. That this is the "modern military". Its as fallen as it has ever been because the larrikin/hoodlum lives on and has never been rounded up and brought to justice.

Alan..... Scotty might not be everyones cuppa here.. but he does speak a bit of truth in this:

"When you have to go to a battle field as I have done you need to know that the guy beside you is not going to crap himself and cry like a baby at the first shot going over your head."

The real issue is bonding. Whatever bonds you with ur mates can be good or bad.
Bastardization ABSOLUTELY does that, but it's bad.. but there are better ways for sure.

In the armed forces, 'violence' is what you are ultimately training for. To KILL people.. lets not dance around the mulberry bush on that score.

My only real regret about the pounding I got from that bloke..is that I didn't hit back. (on that occasion) I should have pushed his nose through the back of his head.

A better approach in my view would be competitive self defense/boxing/martial arts between intakes. That way its controlled and you still get to let off the steam and improve your combat skills.

The biggest danger of bastardization is the emotional scars for sure... and I sometimes don't really like myself when I contemplate what I might do if I met that bloke today.. I know one thing I'd do.. say to him the same words he said to me which triggered the battering "Frog.. ur f-weak arn't you" (using f instead of the expletive).. then.. see what he does.

I used to be pretty handy with my fists in those days, (judging by the small number of encounters I had) now.. I'm manyfold more capable.
and I've never forgotten that bloke.. nor really forgiven...because he has never expressed sorrow..if he did, I'd forgive him.

The first word of the Gospel..is.. 'repent'..and I apply that to my relationships with others in regard to how they have treated me.

Scotty - Are you the worst argument for becoming a soldier on these pages? I congratulate you on retiring... I suspect you made the correct choice! Who gave you the right to tell people who can and can't go to Anzac Day? It's not Scotty Day so pipe down!

The lack of compassion that you show in your posts is absolutely amazing - the big tough guy garbage is wearing a bit thin.

But in your tough guy approach you are actually undermining the ADF that you pretend to defend and you just don't get it. The fact that you have no compassion for a man who has been injured by the system and you blame the father or the son indicates that you need to seek help.

At a time when our military forces doing their best in an illegal war ... you launch your dribble against people who has been bastardised. You sure are a big tough guy! Show me how this is "Looking after our own". Remember your oath Scotty!

Alan if you go through the correct channels and get no satisfactory response go to a lawyer and the media and rattle the armed service's cages. Your identity can be protected and the culprits can get their just desserts.

Best wishes to you Alan.

Scotty is your lack of compassion showing that you may have been injured by the system and maybe just not realised it yet?

Can't you see YOU are letting down the members of the ADF with your debating style?

What a joke

The army is touch feely and those who only read the papers well they are gullable.

Oh you touched me thats assualt.
The reason was that person pointed a rifle at a person, ah who gives a rats if some moron shoots someone until it reaches the papers and all crap is let lose.

You are after soldiers and that is not what we have now, we have people who will get on their phones and cry to mummy because somebody yelled at them.

You can blame yourselves, labor,liberals and the others as well.
What we have now is a pack of pussys just like these other parties and those that keep voting them in.

The army and rest of defence is about protection and democracy and if you cannot trust the moron next to you because he is a cry baby and hasnt learnt why then he will be the first shot.
Cant trust him to cover your back then they are a waste of time.

I wonder if they are aloud to be shot at or is that bastardisation too.
Will he stand and fight or run like labor does.

Stuart Ulrich
Independent Candidate for Charlton
swulrich@bigpond.net.au

Fighting against labor and their hiding of child sexual and physical assualt to cover themselves.

tapp:
May I suggest that if you have any real aspiration to attain the taxpayer funded trough, please learn to spell correctly!

I served in the Services (RAAF) from the 5o`s to the 70`s and I can assure everyone that the bastardization that occurs during recruit training is only a small part of the "real" bastardization that occurs throughout the recruit`s "career", especially if one is prepared to stand up and question any obvious wrongs that are continually perpetrated upon one and all!
I can safely say that some of the worst "bastards" in the service are the Commissioned Officers, who protected by the "Old Boys System", can inflict very destructive psychological punishment upon a junior, simply because of an ingrained resentment of the junior`s intellect (and guts!)

It may be of interest to some that Corporals are not allowed to yell
at recruits or swear anymore. Not PC it seems.

In training or war a sense of urgency can be paramount to ones survival. Just like folding your uniform and polishing your brass does not seem a big deal at the time, it is. The screaming and face rippings are ways of getting a persons attention whom is has know idea of the system or how important time management is to being a soldier. Stuffing around can cost peoples lives.

Do we want a system like the Yanks have? They can go to war only through numbers and sofisticated technology. Thier soldiers are generally dumb white boys from Omaha and ghetto kids from outer metropolitan cities. If you want dumb soldiers whom have no discipline through no fear then go down the PC path, the enemy will thankyou.

For my money the Kiwi soldiers are some of the best in the world because they dont have the PC crap we have yet and a high number of Maori's in thier ranks.

They are just tougher than young Johnny from Brisbane is all and they have honour and they dont go Jack on thier mates.

Scotty that is a far better way of debating an issue but I'm afraid you are blurring the discussion.

This is a thread about the mistreatment of ADF personnel by other ADF personnel against the rules and orders that apply to ADF personnel!

So if all this hard nut stuff and people are toughened by the process and become more disciplined it begs the simple question - WHY ARE SOME ADF PERSONNEL BREAKING THE ADF RULES AND BULLYING, BASTARDISING OR COMMITTING COMMON ASSAULT ON OTHER ADF PERSONNEL AGAINST ORDERS?

If the tough love approach worked and ADF personnel were so disciplined by it and followed orders as obliged the bastardisation just couldn't & wouldn't occur. Afterall are they in breach of orders by doing it? I think disobeying an order and an ADF rule is still a punishable offense - Isn't it?

If bastardisation is still happening when it is strictly prohibited then with respect isn't the chain of command a joke? Shouldn't our top ADF officials question themselves as to why their orders are being broken? Perhaps the respect and discipline allegedly taught in the ADF is a failure and heads should roll?

If Officers hide this under the carpet aren't they in breach of ADF rules? Is that a breach of orders & conduct unbecoming an officer under ADF rules? If so - so much for respect and discipline!