OK JD, I'll let you change the subject. I've had my fun and there's not much more to be wrung from it. Even a cat gets bored playing with its captive mouse.

Ethnic entity - a group, formal or informal, that coalesces around a common ethnicity, race or shared racial values.

The Celts ((remember them? they're the people you thought were Anglo-Saxons)are an ethnic entity. note that they exist in several jurisdictions. Likewise the Germans. Oh and the Levantine Arabs.

These ties are almost always historic. The German ethnic ties go back two millennia, the Celts even further. The Han Chinese further still. The Australian Aboriginal ethnic entity OTOH is very recent. Even though their racial links are millennia old, they didn't see each other as a group until very recently.

Okay, mhaze, you've defined an "ethnic entity" as:

"a group… that coalesces around a common ethnicity, race or shared racial values."

So let's apply that.

Palestinians:

- share Levantine ancestry
- speak a distinct regional dialect of Arabic
- maintain cultural practices tied specifically to historic Palestine
- show longstanding endogamous patterns within that population
- coalesce around a shared historical narrative connected to that land

Under your criteria, which of those elements fails?

If "Levantine Arabs" qualify as an ethnic entity, why would a Levantine Arab subgroup with a distinct regional identity not qualify?

Please specify the threshold you think they do not meet.

- share Levantine ancestry

Along with people living in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. They are all Arabs. Not distinct group. They are all one ethnic group but multiple political groups.

- speak a distinct regional dialect of Arabic

so what. There are multiple Celt dialects. There are multiple German dialects. Boy you're really reaching for straws now.

- maintain cultural practices tied specifically to historic Palestine

Rubbish.

- show longstanding endogamous patterns within that population

Rubbish

- coalesce around a shared historical narrative connected to that land

Coalesce around a shared fable created in the 1960s

mhaze,

You've just dismissed each element without explaining why it fails your own definition.

You defined an ethnic entity as:

"a group… that coalesces around a common ethnicity, race or shared racial values."

So clarify something:

Is your position that subgroups within a broader ethnicity can never constitute an ethnic entity?

If so, then:

- Bavarians are not distinct within Germans
- Scots are not distinct within Britons
- Austrians are not distinct within Germanic peoples
- Ukrainians are not distinct within East Slavs

Because they all share broader ancestry.

If that's not your position, then what differentiates a legitimate subgroup from an illegitimate one?

Be precise.

"- Scots are not distinct within Britons"

Scots are Celtic.

This is funny. You make these broad unsupported assertions and then demand that I dismantle them in detail. How about you support them in detail.

And if I provide the detail you'll then pour through it with a fine tooth-comb seeking a word or phrase that you can misrepresent and then declare victory. Is recovering from the various embarrassments in this thread that important?

mhaze,

Yes, there's a strong Celtic component in Scotland, especially historically. But Scotland isn't ethnically monolithic (Highlands vs Lowlands, Gaelic vs Scots, etc.). The point wasn't a genealogy lecture, it was this:

Subgroups within a broader population can still be recognised as distinct ethnic entities, depending on the criteria.

You're asking me to "support in detail," but the unresolved issue remains your standard:

Do you believe subgroups within a broader ethnicity can ever constitute an "ethnic entity"?

If yes, what are the criteria and threshold?
Time depth? Boundary maintenance? Dialect? Endogamy? Self-identification?

If no, then your own examples (Celts across jurisdictions, Levantine Arabs across jurisdictions) would not qualify either.

So clarify the rule. Once the rule is clear, we can apply it consistently.